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1967 - 1972 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Bumpsides Ford Truck

3G conversion

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Old Oct 14, 2013 | 07:35 AM
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3G conversion

I have installed the 3G, 130 amp. with the 7" ear spacing on a 360 in a 1967 F350. I want to get either a double groove pulley for the crank shaft and alternator, my water pump already has a double groove pulley; or if possible serpentine pulleys for the water pump and crank shaft.

Is the serpentine belt setup something I can find in a salvage yard? If so, what years/engines should I look for?

If it is better to stay with V-belts, what years would likely have the double groove pulleys?

In reading about doing a 3G upgrade I have seen recommendationsto use a 2GA cable from the alternator to battery/solenoid. That would seem to be Over-Kill. A 6GA cable that was 3.5 feet long should be able to handle 200 amps with only a 2% voltage drop. What am I missing that would require a 2GA cable for this application? Why wouldn't the original cable that I took off a 1994 Cougar work? It is less than 2 feet long and has fine stranded cable that appears to be 6GA. Even an 8GA cable should handle 150 amps at that length.


I'll get some photos taken today and add them to this post.
 
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Old Oct 14, 2013 | 11:21 AM
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I don't think the serpentine belts came along until quite a few years after the FE engines had been discontinued, so no, you won't find a serpentine belt set up for an FE at an auto wrecker. I believe there are some aftermarket set ups available, but they are quite expensive.
I'm using double pulleys on my crankshaft and my water pump. One belt runs my alternator and the other belt runs my power steering. Because both belts turn the water pump, I could still drive home or to the parts store if I lose a belt.
As for cable size, I would use the largest guage wire that would fit without too much trouble. The wire that came with the 3G alternator should be fine if it's 6 ga or larger. Don't use 8 ga wire.
I hope this helps.
.
 
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Old Oct 14, 2013 | 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by FECruzer69
I don't think the serpentine belts came along until quite a few years after the FE engines had been discontinued, so no, you won't find a serpentine belt set up for an FE at an auto wrecker. I believe there are some aftermarket set ups available, but they are quite expensive.
I'm using double pulleys on my crankshaft and my water pump. One belt runs my alternator and the other belt runs my power steering. Because both belts turn the water pump, I could still drive home or to the parts store if I lose a belt.
As for cable size, I would use the largest guage wire that would fit without too much trouble. The wire that came with the 3G alternator should be fine if it's 6 ga or larger. Don't use 8 ga wire.
I hope this helps.
.
2X Cruzer with one addition. Too much is better than not enough. You might check the Engine to firewall ground cable. I always overdo everything but when I do the 3G I will put an appropriate size ground cable there also. But that's just me. I like to do things and move on. Not have to worry about it.
 
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Old Oct 14, 2013 | 03:51 PM
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Getting there...

Originally Posted by FECruzer69
I don't think the serpentine belts came along until quite a few years after the FE engines had been discontinued, so no, you won't find a serpentine belt set up for an FE at an auto wrecker. I believe there are some aftermarket set ups available, but they are quite expensive.
I'm using double pulleys on my crankshaft and my water pump. One belt runs my alternator and the other belt runs my power steering. Because both belts turn the water pump, I could still drive home or to the parts store if I lose a belt.
As for cable size, I would use the largest guage wire that would fit without too much trouble. The wire that came with the 3G alternator should be fine if it's 6 ga or larger. Don't use 8 ga wire.
I hope this helps.
.
My truck only has water pump, crank and alternator, that is, one belt will be doing everything. It had not occurred to me that with two belts I will have an option to 'get her home' if one belt fails, sort of like you described.
I've seen the serpentine conversions on eBay, and yes they are pricey. Maybe someday I will find a deal on that route.
I will be off to the salvage yard tomorrow to look for double sheave pulleys.
The cable the donor car supplied is only about 18 inches long and has many more strands than the generic parts store cables. It appears to be 6 gauge. For the same diameter cable, more strands equals greater capacity I have read. It has worked for around 20 years already and appears to be in good condition.

Originally Posted by JEFFFAFA
2X Cruzer with one addition. Too much is better than not enough. You might check the Engine to firewall ground cable. I always overdo everything but when I do the 3G I will put an appropriate size ground cable there also. But that's just me. I like to do things and move on. Not have to worry about it.
Here's the 3G install so far. I took the alternator apart, turned down to the groves in the brush contacts with a lathe, cleaned and clocked it to what I believe is called 12 O'clock. At first it did not look like it would clear the block and head on the back side. Once I saw it would and then attached the wires it looked like the primary wire would contact the valve cover flange. However, it didn't, just barely. Whew...



Here's the preliminary Mega Fuse/Power Distribution wiring. The Mega Fuse holder has a cover that will help keep things working.
Yes, that bright area is day light coming through the rusted out fender by the battery box. It will be closed up to keep 'Power Central' dry before I start driving the truck.



I have installed additional grounds and cleaned up the old ones to help offset the 46 year old rusty sheet metal connections. I have new cables on all the power distribution/charge/start systems. Here's the in-cab bracket that has fuse blocks, ground buss, trailer brake breaker and a place for a relay for the Key-On fuse block that will supply the HEI distributor and other needs. The ground buss is connected to the firewall and also back to the engine compartment with an 10 gauge wire to another ground buss that has 6 gauge cable going to the engine block. I made a Z-bracket that mounts under the E-brake bracket and has an additional bolt through the firewall that serves as a standoff and stabilizer. The added fuse blocks are not wired in yet, not yet...

 
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Old Oct 18, 2013 | 05:57 PM
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Double Sheave Pulleys

I got lucky and found the pulleys I wanted. I'll be able to use double belts on my Crank, Water Pump and 3G Alternator upgrade.

[/IMG]

While I was there they pulled in a 1976 Ranger that looked to be complete. It had a V8 and overall was not in to bad of condition. If anyone is interested in it, it is at Payless Salvage near Butterfield, MO.
 
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Old Oct 18, 2013 | 07:09 PM
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They do make a serpentine belt kit for the FE , just saw it in latest Mustang Monthly Magazine . not CHEAP !
Billet Specialties makes it
 
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Old Oct 18, 2013 | 07:23 PM
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Dee. When removing the pulley off your 3G if you don't have air tools tighten a v-belt on that engine. Let the engine help hold the 3G's shaft still while you remove the nut. There is usually a hex hole in the shaft you can put an allen wrench in to hold the shaft still also.
 
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Old Oct 18, 2013 | 09:04 PM
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Serpent-ine belt setups bite (cost)

Serpentine would be nice, but I only have $20 invested in the dual V-belt pulleys and another $10 in the new belts. I hope the dual V-belt setup will prove to give the benefits I expect over the single V-belt system.

The alternator I've got does not have the allen socket in the end, just a centering recess that I used when turning down the brush grooves on my lathe.

I've got a 1/2" air impact for removing/installing the pulley nut when at home. When removing the pulley at the salvage yard I had to take the alternator off the truck and get the yard workers to use their impact.
 
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Old Oct 19, 2013 | 12:28 AM
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Nice install. I like your relay & fuse setup. I'm thinking of adding this to my truck for additional "key on" items.
 
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Old Oct 19, 2013 | 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by DeeV8er
Serpentine would be nice, but I only have $20 invested in the dual V-belt pulleys and another $10 in the new belts. I hope the dual V-belt setup will prove to give the benefits I expect over the single V-belt system.

The alternator I've got does not have the allen socket in the end, just a centering recess that I used when turning down the brush grooves on my lathe.

I've got a 1/2" air impact for removing/installing the pulley nut when at home. When removing the pulley at the salvage yard I had to take the alternator off the truck and get the yard workers to use their impact.
Dee. When using 2 belts as you are they have to be a "matched set". Otherwise 1 will be tight and the other flopping just a bit. Check around the outer perimeter of the belts. There should be either a color code or a number representing the main belt your belts were cut from. Make sure they match.
 

Last edited by JEFFFAFA; Oct 19, 2013 at 02:24 PM. Reason: sp
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Old Oct 27, 2013 | 07:25 AM
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Belt tension

Originally Posted by JEFFFAFA
Dee. When using 2 belts as you are they have to be a "matched set". Otherwise 1 will be tight and the other flopping just a bit. Check around the outer perimeter of the belts. There should be either a color code or a number representing the main belt your belts were cut from. Make sure they match.
I haven't check this thread in a few days, sorry for the late reply on your advice.

I have, after three attempts, found a pair of belts that fit well. I went to the parts store and did the, 'give me a pair of xxxxx (part number) belts', and would then try them to see if I got a fit that gave me plenty of tension adjustment range.

I did not get a 'matched' pair of belts on purpose, however these seem to be very close to the same length/tension. After running them for a while, if one seems slightly looser I am going to position it as the outer belt. In doing this I think I'll lessen the angular strain on the alternator and water pump bearings.

Thanks for the advice guys. I hope to have the wiring mods; 3G, headlight relays, electric fans, dual air/fuel gauges, Vac gauge, and Volt/Oil Pressure/Temp set all finished up this week and start the break-in process for my rebuilt engine.

Oh, just some advice. The wipers quit when I tried them on my failed attempt to drive the truck home after purchasing it. I finally got around to fixing them.
I removed and tested the switch - It was OK.
I removed the motor and disassembeled/cleaned/lubricated it - It was OK.
??????
The problem seems to have just been a poor ground!

My advice (to myself); Try the simple solution first!
 
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