The impossible happened, I broke my BTS 4R100. Ironically all we were doing was accelerating from a stop up a steep hill with 3 Highland coos in the stock trailer. Ambient temperature was a little below 100 degrees F but the transmission temperature was only about 151. That's a common reading for summertime highway driving, up to 180 something in city driving. We had been driving for a little more than half an hour so I assume fluids were neither too hot nor too cold.

What is ironic is that pulling a trailer of just a few thousand pounds is light duty compared to all that this transmission has done in the past. Years of hard off road 4 wheeling in Alaska, Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana. Grossing near 30,000 lbs towing all over two countries.

The way it happened was we had made a stop to grab some cold drinks and took off slow and smooth as usual for the livestock. Transmission was staying in 1st gear longer than usual, but it is a very steep hill. Finally shifted and bogged hard with more black smoke out the exhaust in usual. At the time I didn't think that much of it but now I'm thinking it must have skipped 2nd gear and gone into 3rd. After just a few seconds of that the transmission seemed about to downshift and I suddenly lost all forward ability. My father was in the passenger seat and recall a loud bang that I somehow didn't notice.

Everything with the engine seemed normal. Only thing working when I selected gears was park. No noise, no change in transmission temperature, no leaking oil, no external signs of any problems. I was suspicious of the transfer case until someone reminded me the parking pawl wouldn't hold if the transfer case wasn't holding.

We had to back our rig down the long 2 way hill, directing traffic all the while. It was rough. Took another 2 hours for a tow truck to arrive. Had to get our Suburban to swap the trailer over so we could deliver the coos. Long day.

The local shop struggled for almost 3 days before they were able to get the transmission out. With the truck weighing over 10,000 lbs they had to use one of their recovery winches to help the lift get my truck in the air. Then they kept busting knuckles but finally got the job done.

Brian suggested we check the input shaft but it looked solid. Dumped the oil out of the torque convert to check both sets of splines but found no damage there either. Nearly 2 weeks had passed by at this point playing phone tag which brings us to now. Today I found out the earliest he can work on my transmission is over 3 weeks away. He now thinks the 1st gear drum broke-hope I'm relaying that correctly. He says it was likely a stock part just cryogenically treated. He now has an updated 300M piece. We won't know details for sure until he gets it taken apart.

We got lucky that I wasn't hauling gear for the 15 piece orchestra I had play a wedding in Illinois a few days after it happened. But this truck is still my daily driver, farm truck, and music rig so being without out it this long is a major struggle. Worst of all I just found out the bill is going to be pretty high. Would usually be around $800 but since I need a different torque converter with a lower stall speed it sounds like I'm in for quite a bit more.

I had spent nearly all of my inheritance on this transmission about 9 years ago with a bill well over $5,000 with a chip and some dyno runs. Sure thought I was making an investment that would protect me from this sort of thing ever happening. Having been unemployed for over 3 years I don't even know how we're going to make this happen.

Sounds like I'm going to have an awful lot tied up into this transmission. Sure wish I wasn't spending so much on just a 4 speed. But from what I've Googled it doesn't sound like anything other than the built Dodge or 4R100 4 speeds can handle the power of a Cummins. I'm only at about 600 hp and 1,200 tq so barely over half what the still stock bottom end can manage.

Hopefully the transmission will at least drive better with my Cummins after the rebuild. The torque converter is extremely loose. Truck barely moves until you get going fast enough to where you can lock the torque converter. And when it unlocks while driving you nearly get whiplash losing so much momentum. I use a PCS TCU to make the best of the shifts. I've sent my files in to them to optimize my situation. Unless I want whiplash followed by mush while accelerating the torque convert has to stay locked, which makes for very firm shifts. So rough that my driveshafts have only been lasting a year at a time.

I'm very disappointed that I broke what as far as I know is the strongest light duty automatic one can buy. If it had happened during some sort of abusive driving situation I would feel differently. But I've been driving this truck gently the past few years since I can't afford to fix anything. Not to mention I've been crippled for about 2 years and literally can't fix anything myself like I almost always used to. The oil always showed color and was full so as I was advised, I didn't change it unless it needed changing.

I wish there was some way to get back on the road reliably, quickly, and affordably. I don't think a stock transmission would hold up for long. Mine didn't when it still had just the 7.3. Didn't even make it all the way to BTS the day I was going to get it built. And a manual wouldn't work with my Destroked adapters.

If anyone has an idea that might be a better solution for my transmission needs that can be done for a cost I'm guessing to be around another $2,000 I am open to suggestions. The truck is almost perfectly customized to my needs so I need it back in service.

 

Far, FAR from impossible.

I've posted this many times, but many years ago when I drove down to Holtville to have John Wood build me one of his signature transmissions, he told me a transmission is mechanical, and ANYTHING mechanical can break, even the trans he builds, and even the trans Brian builds.

Why is your rig so heavy?

Why do you need a different torque convertor?

Well, Brians AND Johns, but yeah...it's one of the best.

John has my son's transmission right now as we speak because the ATS trans in his truck busted.

I told my son when he bought his truck to start saving his money for a new John Wood built trans, because that ATS unit was definitely gonna give up the ghost sooner or later.

It lasted 4 months before it broke.

Since your funds are low, I'd just stick with Brian. I'm sure he's gonna hook you up, even though you're out of warrantee. There are many stories on the internet where Brian has done so.

A stock trans would NOT hold up well to your cummins.

Nope. Aint nothing out there for 2 grand.

Stewart

 

Wow it finally happened. Figured somebody would have an issue sooner or later. If it built by man and mechanical IT WILL BREAK!. But I thought once you bought one of these trannys there was NEVER anything else to worry about. What kind of warrantys so these things have anyway?

 

I feel for your situation...but I question what you feel is abusive vs. not?

I feel you are lucky the trans lasted as long as it did. I've blown up many many turbo 350's built up for RV use. And they all gave up the ghost due to excessively hard shifts. Sounds to me that's what you did


best of luck getting her back on the road

 

LOL, it's happened MANY times! Why do you think everyone knows how well Brian stands behind his build?

Stewart

 

One year, BTS fixes and pays shipping and everything. After that, BTS will still fix free but you have to pay to get it to him.

 

I think maybe you mean the forward clutch drum.

The ATS built trans in my sons truck (it came in the truck....previous owner bought it because Lord knows, I'd never let my son buy an ATS unit) is at John Woods' shop getting fixed. Monday (yesterday) John called and said the forward clutch drum had given out because ATS just reused a recycled unit. How it lasted this long only the Father knows.

Anyway, John said Ford obsoleted the part back in February, that's why the billet drum is being used now.

Stewart

 

I have wanted to post an update for years and am finally making some time. Getting my transmission rebuilt was a disappointing experience. The cost of everything almost equalled the price of a brand new transmission and repairs weren't complete when I left BTS.

First, it took almost a month before I could get an appointment. This was a huge challenge because I am crippled and have custom seating in only this truck so lacking transportation for that duration was a major ache. When speaking with other customers at the shop some had gotten their trucks in within just two days notice. The longest anyone else had had to wait was two weeks. I thought that was strange.

A local tow truck driver hauled me and the truck down to Arkansas. He charged me $500 plus fuel, which was much cheaper than shipping just the transmission and paying to have it reinstalled locally. It was a cold night but I slept in my truck. The driver loaned me his jacket. The transmission had already been removed. All that broke was indeed the forward clutch, if I recall correctly for first gear. I asked why it had broken and Brian said it was an inferior part. He now uses a stronger part. He said I did nothing wrong and didn't abuse the transmission or cause it to break.

However, he showed me that the clutches did have a lot of wear. He built the transmission to shift much harder. When we went for the first test drive it shifted harder than anything I've ever ridden in. It literally caused whiplash when it shifted, even without lockup. We reprogrammed the shifts to be softer but I've had to keep it harder than I would like.

I watched much of the build and Brian worked on the truck himself. One of his employees was perched under the hood, literally resting on my coolant reservoir. This concerned me but I had to figure they knew what they were doing. I'd had that reservoir on and off many times over the years so it had some wear but it was nowhere near about to break. But it totally broke and hit the fan while Brian and Cale were on a test drive and overheated the engine as it ran out of coolant. Fortunately they had another reservoir available that I think they pulled from another truck in the shop. That's one of the expenses I wasn't expecting.

Cale doesn't work there anymore but Brian had him come over to load their shift program onto my controller. I had it programmed to lockup very early because the torque converter was so loose. He said when I swapped in the Cummins just after I got the first transmission that I should have swapped the torque converter to a lower stall speed than what he had installed. I didn't know.

I told him I thought I needed a much lower stall speed and explained to him that driving over even a small curb or up onto ramps required an excessive amount of throttle. He said he was going to install a torque converter three steps tighter than what was in there. I don't know what stall speed he had installed in the first transmission nor how many RPMs are in a step. So I do not know what stall speed I now have. I have a feeling he just installed the lowest thing he had in stock. He said he and Cale thought it was perfect.

It was into the early morning by the time I finished paying and left the shop. Brian is a genius and was as always very nice to talk to. All of his customers went to lunch with the shop's crew as usual. He later showed me some of the projects he had going on and we talked tech. He was very interested in Scott Countryman whom he'd spoken to before so I told him about the amazing work Scott does in Colorado with DeStroked. He also said it was very smart of me to convert my truck to the 2006 axles, steering, and suspension. It's definitely been one of my best upgrades.

The bill was nearly double what I'd read others online saying to expect for a rebuild. The transmission broke after about six to seven years of use so there was no warranty but he said he gave me a price break on a couple things. He had replaced my shift lever since I couldn't hold third gear so that was one added expense. That part only worked for about a year so I still can't hold third gear.

Before the truck hit the road for test driving they ran through the gears with the truck running while the rear end was on jack stands. There was an extremely loud metal to metal clacking sound as they tested. So loud that everyone in the shop stopped what they were doing to look. I asked Brian a few times if he would look into the noise before I left but he said it was just the spider gears because of the ARB locker and that there was nothing to worry about.

When I left it took a few miles before the local roads got my speed up enough to realize something was very wrong. I couldn't go over 45 mph without the whole truck shaking violently and making horrible noise. I called the shop and left a message for Brian but he'd already left. Unfortunately I was physically incapable of crawling underneath to closely inspect but viewing from the sides as best I could nothing was visibly wrong or smoking from excessive heat.

The drive to the St. Louis area would normally be only several hours but going only 40-45 mph took me a very long time. I took my truck to the shop that had originally pulled the transmission and hauled me to Arkansa and the mechanic quickly assessed that nobody had tightened the bolts on my driveshaft. I was very surprised to learn the flange at the axle was fine but the driveshaft had not survived.

My driveshaft mechanic had been suggesting trying a two piece shaft and getting rid of the double cardian joint that was wearing out roughly every year. The new driveshaft cost me another grand but hasn't had any issues since. When I went to pick up my truck from him he commented about test driving my new transmission. He didn't like how it drove at all. I asked him what he disliked and it was the same thing I felt, that the engine wasn't getting power to the ground. The torque converter's stall feels way too high.

I had the truck at another shop for a/c work not long after that. The owner of that shop brought up my transmission as well. He said the same thing, that the transmission feels slushy revving to high RPMs before the truck gets moving. He absolutely hated it.

For a couple years every single time I drove my truck I immediately noticed how much I disliked having to rev the old 12 valve so high before my truck would begin to move. It is embarrassing, as if the truck has no power, lots of RPMs and no go. Trying to get over the 1-2" bump from the gravel to the pavement at the end of the driveway took at least 1,700 RPMs to roll up on with my 37" tires. Trying to back a trailer weighing only a few thousand pounds up even the slightest incline takes 2,000 RPMs to even begin to move.

After about a year and a half the torque converter seemed like it got tighter. You can distinctly feel it start to grab at 1,400 RPMs. Stopped at a stoplight or on a hill it holds perfectly without rolling back downhill. At a little before 1,100 RPMs it is just barely able to get the truck to move on a slight incline but doesn't feel like it adds much more power until it hits that 1,400 RPM mark and even that RPM isn't as strong as once it gets to 1,700 RPMs.

I'm surprised that I can feel such noticeable differences at the RPMs, I expected it would be smoother. I'm guessing this means the torque converter is not only too high of a stall but maybe too loose as well?

For two and a half years I tried to get help from BTS. They said we could exchange the torque converter and asked what stall speed I want. I said I don't know what it should have but that I could probably guess based on what stall speed they had installed. They have never answered any of my dozens of requests to tell me what speed they installed.

I contacted Precision Industries directly asking if they could possibly help. They said the torque converter will have to be removed to find out. I look forward to someday getting the right torque converter installed. I live on my family's farm and my mother complains about how high the engine revs even when driving so slow because it panics all of the animals and sends them running so they crash into fences.

I told BTS that my RPMs are only 2,000 at 80 mph and I barely exceed that RPM with moderately aggressive driving. Even with well over 600 hp I now spin well over 2,000 RPMs just to keep up with average traffic from stop lights. I have a 4k GSK but probably see 3,000 RPMs at most a few dozen times a year. I designed the truck for low RPM power, crawling slow off road, moving trailers, etc. The new torque converter may be a lower stall speed but since I no longer have it locking as early it spins way too much. Strangely it is tighter than the old one by enough to make it so that it no longer drives well with that type of programming.

Cale looked at my programming and said that how I had it setup was actually very close to theirs so they did not load their program onto my controller. They said they were going to so that a few small programming features would be fully operational so I was disappointed to later find they changed their minds. Cale was also going to change the TCU to have low range match two wheel drive in program A but for some reason he decided not to do that either. Brain said he didn't charge me for Cale's programming. I've had to do tons of adjusting since anyway.

The new transmission made the truck feel very different. Though I know this makes no sense I feel like I'm driving a tightly wound electric motor in the transmission. It feels very modern. I had to decrease the hardness of the shifts because it was just too painful for me but Brian said that because of the truck's power and weight it needs to shift firm.

I can't find the specs for what a stock 2000 7.3 torque converter stall speed is. Nor for a stock 1994 12 valve. From what I've read I suspect they are in the neighborhood of 2,200 RPMs. I would very much appreciate the information if anyone knows what stall speed Brian usually uses in his basic 4R100 swaps and what his steps equals in terms of RPMs. Then I could perhaps guess what stall speed I have. The general consensus I've found for my setup is that I should have at least as low as a 1,400 RPM stall speed. My understanding is that a properly setup low stall converter doesn't require standing on the brake pedal at idle, which I certainly wouldn't like.

I can't count how many hundreds of diesel drivers I recommended to BTS over the years. After this experience I think I'll have to look for another option when this one breaks. It is hard to believe they wouldn't check the driveshaft bolts especially after hearing such an obvious problem and the customer requesting a further look multiple times. It would have saved me a very unpleasant drive and another thousand dollars. I asked Brian if he is able to find good workers locally and he said it is very difficult to find good mechanics out there. Brian was the one mostly working under my truck. BTS ignored my every request to learn what stall speed they had installed and after two and a half years I finally realized this is how they treat customers and gave up.

 

"I had spent nearly all of my inheritance on this transmission about 9 years ago with a bill well over $5,000 with a chip and some dyno runs."

Did I miss something?

 

Did you regear your axles for the 37's?



I'm guessing since you mentioned a disability a manual trans is out of the question?

 

I was wrong, the first BTS transmission only lasted about six years. The price for the second just at BTS was well over half that.

I like the 3.73 gears. With 37" tires it gives me nice low cruising RPMs and keeps the Cummins in it's torque band for most of the types of driving I do. Dodges came with much higher gearing options from the factory behind the 12 valve.

Sacrificing higher cruising RPMs for stronger take off would help during takeoff, but I'd still be wasting hundreds of RPMs until the converter grabs. I've built a handful of vehicles and the lowest gears I've ever run were 5.83s, screamed down the interstate. A major reason I swapped in a Cummins was to be able to use more low end power. I used to off road every chance I had, mostly trails and rock crawling.

My current setup often requires shifting into low range to climb obstacles and maneuver trailers with finesse. Another issue with the high stall torque converter is that on slick surfaces I have to use so much RPM that when the converter finally starts to grab the tires just spin and loose traction. The same can happen when trying to slowly take off while pulling a trailer up an incline on loose gravel.

The problem is quite noticeable. Even if you aren't driving it, just listening to it rev and watching it not move demonstrates an obvious issue. My engine has more than enough power to move the truck at lower RPMs, the power there is just being wasted. I should note that when I got this new transmission I lost 1-2 mpg and I attribute that solely to the high revs.

There have been times I wished I had a manual, though very few. I don't know if I could handle the pain. My understanding is that built automatics are actually much stronger than built manual transmissions. I do miss granny low in the old T-18. My 2.7 low range crawls slow enough most of the time even with the big tires. I used to lock the converter in low range descending steep mountain trails, which required a lot less braking.

I think my ideal transition would be a bullet proof CVT. I bet it could be designed to replace a transfer case too. But are there any automatics that can be built as strong as the 4R100 and fit under an F-series tunnel? Brian explained to me many years ago that there is a huge advantage regarding the clutches not having to come on and off between shifts like on most transmissions. This was why even an Allison can never be as strong. I can't recall the explanation any clearer. Since I lost much of my mobility I don't do much wrenching and haven't needed to be a gear head. Although it looks like I'm going to need to figure out how to fit a second turbo pretty soon as my Garrett is fading and was always on borrowed time.