New take on propane?
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 317
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From: NW Ohio
New take on propane?
I have been doing some brainstorming, because lets face it work is boring.
Has anyone ever considered using propane strictly to cut gas consumption down when in OD? where i live gas is $3.5 ish and propane can be had for $1.20 ish in the summer. The logic behind this is when the vehicle shifts into OD, a small amount of propane would be let into the manifold. Finding the right amount would be experimental. The best platform I can think of would be a MAF EFI. Once the propane fires and works to the o2 sensors the o2 sensor should read a rich condition and lean the gasoline( since the gas is the only thing it controls). when/IF the tank runs out( or come out of OD), the o2 sensors should read a lean condition and restore its normal injectors firing cycle.
Everything else that happens I dont know. Things like would the propane change the overall burn rate in the cylinder etc.
2 cents appreciated!
Has anyone ever considered using propane strictly to cut gas consumption down when in OD? where i live gas is $3.5 ish and propane can be had for $1.20 ish in the summer. The logic behind this is when the vehicle shifts into OD, a small amount of propane would be let into the manifold. Finding the right amount would be experimental. The best platform I can think of would be a MAF EFI. Once the propane fires and works to the o2 sensors the o2 sensor should read a rich condition and lean the gasoline( since the gas is the only thing it controls). when/IF the tank runs out( or come out of OD), the o2 sensors should read a lean condition and restore its normal injectors firing cycle.
Everything else that happens I dont know. Things like would the propane change the overall burn rate in the cylinder etc.
2 cents appreciated!
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 317
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From: NW Ohio
My logic behind OD only is...
1) to not have to have a large amount of propane at all times. or struggle to find a refill.
2) gasoline is still better for acceleration, best for gross acceleration.
3) propane with its slight performance loss would be performing the same function as the OD gear, sacrificing performance to extend gas mileage
I have read many places online the dual fuel setup isnt all that great. Most of the propane boosters with chip mods seem to be for diesels.
Sticking to 1 gear seems to fill the void between all the pros and cons of to have propane or to not have it.
1) to not have to have a large amount of propane at all times. or struggle to find a refill.
2) gasoline is still better for acceleration, best for gross acceleration.
3) propane with its slight performance loss would be performing the same function as the OD gear, sacrificing performance to extend gas mileage
I have read many places online the dual fuel setup isnt all that great. Most of the propane boosters with chip mods seem to be for diesels.
Sticking to 1 gear seems to fill the void between all the pros and cons of to have propane or to not have it.
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 550
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From: N. IL
My dad just setup a 2010 F-250 with 5.4 on propane and the performance is good. There isn't much if any power loss on propane compared to gasoline. A load of hogs the other day weighed in at 17,300# on the elevator scale. And it pulled just fine on propane, it's no 6.7 powerstroke but it easily did the job.
In our area there is a chain of home improvement stores (menards) that sell autogas plus a truckstop. So accessing it isn't a big issue here. But mainly we fill up at the farm from the large tank there.
In our area there is a chain of home improvement stores (menards) that sell autogas plus a truckstop. So accessing it isn't a big issue here. But mainly we fill up at the farm from the large tank there.
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,084
Likes: 94
From: Stanton, Michigan, USA
I was reading about this:
http://www.roushcleantech.com/sites/...CTOBER2013.pdf
What do you guys think about it?
I've read that propane will result in about 15% less power, but the cost per gallon is 48% less. So, depending on the number of miles you run, the payback would be / could be in 2-3 years....then you're saving $$$. I'd like to read about the differences in engine longevity between gasoline / diesel / propane. Has anyone seen such a report or study? Maybe a military study?
BarnieTrk
http://www.roushcleantech.com/sites/...CTOBER2013.pdf
What do you guys think about it?
I've read that propane will result in about 15% less power, but the cost per gallon is 48% less. So, depending on the number of miles you run, the payback would be / could be in 2-3 years....then you're saving $$$. I'd like to read about the differences in engine longevity between gasoline / diesel / propane. Has anyone seen such a report or study? Maybe a military study?
BarnieTrk
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,305
Likes: 8
my previous truck was a 1984 f250 351w c6 ... dual fuel gas/propane ( i should never have let go of that truck).
my current truck is a 1994 f250 351w c6 ... straight propane (we have lots of propane filling stations here and the price is a little over half of the price of gas).
i am not hauling 5 tons of hogs but i pull a trailer and haul scrap metal with it; power has never been an issue. if i needed more power i am sure that a 460 would be more than enough.
if i have 1 tank filled with fuel at 3.50 a gallon and another tank filled with fuel at 1.20 a gallon, i know which tank i am using ... ALL the time.
my current truck is a 1994 f250 351w c6 ... straight propane (we have lots of propane filling stations here and the price is a little over half of the price of gas).
i am not hauling 5 tons of hogs but i pull a trailer and haul scrap metal with it; power has never been an issue. if i needed more power i am sure that a 460 would be more than enough.
if i have 1 tank filled with fuel at 3.50 a gallon and another tank filled with fuel at 1.20 a gallon, i know which tank i am using ... ALL the time.
New User
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 5
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From: UK
I've been running a propane powered F250 5.4 here in the UK for 18 months now and won't change.
Propane here is known as LPG (liquified petroleum gas) and is growing in popularity as more places sell the fuel and with a smart phone app they are easy to find.
It's a 1999 motor and was converted in 2000, It has covered over 100,000 miles on LPG alone.
To my knowledge it has suffered no major failings from LPG on the engine.
Mine is an old basic single point injection system with the mixer on the air intake pipe not the multipoint LPG injection one.
It's the only way to afford to run a truck here in UK as the petrol and diesel prices exchange to approx $10 per gal
The LPG system has a annual service and test and their advise is to change the plugs every service. Bearing in mind the oil changes are longer due to no carbon deposits and run clean so that's yearly for me at 7000 miles.
Is it lower powered on LPG. Don't know never run it on petrol only to start it.
Propane here is known as LPG (liquified petroleum gas) and is growing in popularity as more places sell the fuel and with a smart phone app they are easy to find.
It's a 1999 motor and was converted in 2000, It has covered over 100,000 miles on LPG alone.
To my knowledge it has suffered no major failings from LPG on the engine.
Mine is an old basic single point injection system with the mixer on the air intake pipe not the multipoint LPG injection one.
It's the only way to afford to run a truck here in UK as the petrol and diesel prices exchange to approx $10 per gal
The LPG system has a annual service and test and their advise is to change the plugs every service. Bearing in mind the oil changes are longer due to no carbon deposits and run clean so that's yearly for me at 7000 miles.
Is it lower powered on LPG. Don't know never run it on petrol only to start it.
Last edited by John Darvell; Jan 23, 2014 at 03:13 PM. Reason: Additional information
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Junior User
Joined: Jan 2005
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I would love to see some pictures and specifications for the tanks you are using also. I am building a Bronco to run on dedicated propane.
Thanks
Jonny
Thanks
Jonny
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Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,084
Likes: 94
From: Stanton, Michigan, USA
Good information, John Darvell.
I can't imagine only traveling 7000 miles a year! But I am having a hard time imagining $10/gallon for fuel too!
So what do you / what can you haul/tow with your LPG-powered F250?
BarnieTrk
I can't imagine only traveling 7000 miles a year! But I am having a hard time imagining $10/gallon for fuel too!
So what do you / what can you haul/tow with your LPG-powered F250?
BarnieTrk
Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,860
Likes: 7
The key with propane is advance it and high compression.
We used to have a '66 Chevy, straight-6. Converted it to propane.
It was nice because it would fire right up no matter what. It could sit for a year, and just start. Fuel never goes bad, and because it's vapor(when it gets to the intake anyway), it mixes quite nicely.
I think the power loss is more due to using a very-high-octane fuel(105) in a low-octane-optimized engine. Do some improvements to your engine, make it propane-only, and you'll be able to get at least as much power, if not more.
We used to have a '66 Chevy, straight-6. Converted it to propane.
It was nice because it would fire right up no matter what. It could sit for a year, and just start. Fuel never goes bad, and because it's vapor(when it gets to the intake anyway), it mixes quite nicely.
I think the power loss is more due to using a very-high-octane fuel(105) in a low-octane-optimized engine. Do some improvements to your engine, make it propane-only, and you'll be able to get at least as much power, if not more.
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,084
Likes: 94
From: Stanton, Michigan, USA
The key with propane is advance it and high compression.
We used to have a '66 Chevy, straight-6. Converted it to propane.
It was nice because it would fire right up no matter what. It could sit for a year, and just start. Fuel never goes bad, and because it's vapor(when it gets to the intake anyway), it mixes quite nicely.
I think the power loss is more due to using a very-high-octane fuel(105) in a low-octane-optimized engine. Do some improvements to your engine, make it propane-only, and you'll be able to get at least as much power, if not more.
We used to have a '66 Chevy, straight-6. Converted it to propane.
It was nice because it would fire right up no matter what. It could sit for a year, and just start. Fuel never goes bad, and because it's vapor(when it gets to the intake anyway), it mixes quite nicely.
I think the power loss is more due to using a very-high-octane fuel(105) in a low-octane-optimized engine. Do some improvements to your engine, make it propane-only, and you'll be able to get at least as much power, if not more.
Does that mean you started your engine on gasoline then (within a minute or two) switch it over to propane or did you start it on propane as well?
BarnieTrk
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,305
Likes: 8
with propane, there is no need to start the engine using gasoline. the only reason to use a dual-fuel system for propane is if you live in an area where propane filling stations are not that common.
my 1994 f250 is on propane only. i live and work in the city and suburbs and i am never more than 20 miles from a propane filling station ( i live about 3 blocks from one).
by the way ... the price of propane has risen dramatically this winter due to the greatly increased demand because of the extreme cold weather you easterners have been enjoying this year ... maybe you could knock it off ???
my 1994 f250 is on propane only. i live and work in the city and suburbs and i am never more than 20 miles from a propane filling station ( i live about 3 blocks from one).
by the way ... the price of propane has risen dramatically this winter due to the greatly increased demand because of the extreme cold weather you easterners have been enjoying this year ... maybe you could knock it off ???
New User
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: UK
It's not my daily drive as I have a work van. That's why the mileage per year is low. It's my show truck and toy. I tow my 28ft 6 berth caravan no problem at all but want to upgrade to a 5th wheeler one when I can afford to. Don't forget the UK is tiny compared to the states so we don't need to go far. Propane tank is in the pick up bed. 230 litres tank takes up around the first 18" of the truck bed. It's cosmetically enclosed in ply wood.
Tuned
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 348
Likes: 2
From: British colombia
Bit late here... but I got a 1990 f250 with a 460, dual ags tanks, AND dual propane tanks. They are mounted under the truck so my whole bed is free at all times. It's nice to have propane as an option, but I wouldn't like only having propane, because of less places to fuel up and such. It's good for long haul trips because it's much cheaper, but I do see a decrease in performance for sure, even in OD. I feel like these newer vehicles that run on propane dont see a decrease in performance at all.