Yes....sort of.

Now, I can't speak for everyone out there (however I can just about guarantee that it's correct), but the "stock" position on any chip with programming for a near-stock truck (no aftermarket injectors or transmission goodies) IS a stock Ford calibration that you'd find coming off of the assembly line. "Stock" on our stuff is STOCK. Going from an earlier example, if you have an NVK5 PCM and install a chip from a tuning company that uses PMT1 for a base, the "stock" setting on that chip will be a stock PMT1 binary pulled from a factory PMT1 PCM.


The following apply to me (can't speak for everyone, you know) :

When it comes to "live tuning" as your question points, the "tune" that is used as a starting point will depend on what tune is going to be changed. If a 100 Performance (just an arbitrary calibration name) is being personalized for a particular stock-ish truck, then the base 100P from the "tune library" will be used and changes will be made to that program. As you learned when you first started posting here Rich, the amount of fuel commanded is the basis of horsepower ratings; the ultimate pulse width numbers, injection pressure, and all of the special tuning tricks that are part of each particular calibration won't change. However, the rates of change and amount of change between trigger points (RPM/pressure/temperature/etc.) will be changed to fit the customer's desires. Starting with a bone-stock tune just to write a new 100P calibration would be a little more labor intensive as most of the stuff from the original 100P would just be a copy-and-paste ordeal anyway. The same goes for a modified truck (say for larger-nozzle or split to single truck), but in that case the fuel delivery, injection pressure, and start of injection events would be changed to control the fuel rate.....all of the other stuff that makes the tuning work (boost limits, transmission shifting, et al) would come from the original 100P file and be modified as needed.

 

I forgot to add a few things.

PMT1 is NOT the end-all, be-all for 99-01 trucks. I have found that there are a number of situations where it isn't appreciated. In my line of work (I have a full-time job not related to tuning), I have been exposed to a lot of different situations where the stock strategy works a lot better than one changed to the almighty PMT1. Just as a daily driver (or track queen), PMT1 works pretty darn well. However, when driving a truck that's dedicated to pulling a GCW of 24K, the NVK3 that Ford deemed suitable for use in that truck (and I deemed unfit to live because it SUCKS for DD and light towing), works quite well. PMT2 works better because at least it allows engine braking while using the service brakes and it doesn't slam into 3rd gear/TCC apply immediately on a forced downshift.

Regardless, it's not SAFELY possible to mix and match strategies on a chip (it would be nice if it were possible so that the best of a few different worlds could be achieved) so we do the best that we can with what we have and can work with. Sure, a person could program a chip with six different programs written from six different strategies, but at that point, the chip wouldn't be switch-on-the-fly.....it would be dangerous in traffic.

 

The pmt1 that was put on my chip is causing a mushy 2/3 shift. Then also, unless I am accelerating hard ,the torque converter locks and at almost the sametime it goes into overdrive, dropping my rpm's by 1000. Kinda annoying and can't be good for the Trans.

 

Ahh... I'm learnin' stuff here. Thank you for that. I have a NVK4 PCM on my 2000 and my original stock tune didn't suck so bad after I fixed everything on my truck and did a few breathing/fuel repairs/mods. Now I have these SS stage IIs and I really don't know where to begin for a "Stock" tune. I have asked for a high-altitude attitude toward the tuning for two reasons: I figure this will make it nearly as tame as the original stock for the sake of driving on ice. I live near mountains and I have a high-altitude trip coming up soon (Tahoe). I know from experience my normal DD doesn't work at those altitudes without offending the locals, the tourists, and the law... so I want to have something in my arsenal to address this. As for my DD (60e), I have specified exactly how I want it to behave with the throttle and it's coming along nicely: The throttle is stock-ish with grandpa's foot and there is no perceptable "spike", knee-point, valley, or saturation in the throttle range. My throttle is linear. I had a harsh 1-2 shift with all the added oomph at WOT, but that has been resolved as well. All my shifts are authoritive without jerking in all modes... this took some fine-tuning to get it that way with my sticks and transmission.

Now the questions come in: Is my approach reasonable with the "stock" tune, and what's up with the PMT1 and PMT2? These are new terms to me.

 

Guys, this is a great thread. I'm learning things. Keep it going. Cody, thanks for stopping by.

 

Just got my chip back from you last week, Cody. Re-installed yesterday. I started this thread because my initial feeling was that the stock PCM tuning was much different than the "stock" setting on the chip.

My truck has a PMT2 PCM. Which means the "stock" tune (position 1) is running a PMT2 file - correct? Or would it be loaded with PMT1 instead?

What about updates? When was the last Ford released update? Years ago I assume... (?)
So is it fair to say the chips are running the most recent version of YXWZ?

 

My question is. Would my JW trans work ok if I had to pull the chip for some reason? This is in reference to the part of Codys post that says " No aftermarket injectors or trans goodies".

 

You're running PMT1 in all positions. If we were to put a PMT2 calibration in for your stock position, the truck would stumble or die nearly every time you switched into or out of that position. It has to do with checksums and binary addressing.

Updates? How closely do you follow the 6.0L PSD saga? Any calibration "updates" from Ford are usually downgrades. I believe the latest revision is CKX0 for your particular truck, but you'd be hard pressed to notice any difference from a PMT2/3 (and those two are identical).

Believe it or not, just within the last two years Ford came out with some new 7.3L calibrations. However, since there's no reason to exchange what works for something that won't change anything......it's just easier to use the ol' standby strategies.

There is no concrete answer for that. It all depends on how your particular truck responds to the increased fluid flow characteristics and how much of a "kick-in-the-seat" you're willing to deal with if the combination of both added pressure AND flow make the shifts too firm. I usually recommend that people TRY the tuning the way it is first....and only spend the time/money on a reburn if the shifts are unbearably harsh after the valve body change.



My personal definition of "stock" is a tune that feels EXACTLY like a stock calibration would feel with stock injectors. The same smoke, the same "lethargisism", and the same power output on the rollers. This means that I keep all of the tune modifications to a bare minimum....only altering the base pulse width map until I get where I need to be. It's completely do-able under most circumstances, but keep in mind that the larger the nozzles get, the easier it is to run out of resolution in the mapping.....and the more difficult it becomes to maintain a stock feel (capacity doesn't play a role in this case).

As far as the strategy differences go, VRAA6S3 (PMT1) and VRAA7S5 (PMT2) are very similar in most all regards save for some transmission pressure changes (both for shifting and line) and most notably, the operation of the torque converter clutch apply and release during a forced 4-3 downshift. Personally, I hate the aforementioned TCC strategy of PMT2. It's extremely hard to explain, but BOTH calibrations release the torque converter clutch during the 4-3 downshift; the PMT1 releases and reapplies so quickly that it feels like a straight 4-3 downshift with no release of the torque converter clutch. The PMT2 on the other hand will release the torque converter clutch for roughly 2 to 2.5 seconds after the 4-3 downshift and then reapply. That in itself is not really a bad thing as it does save a TON of harshness. However, Ford in their infinite wisdom decided that it was acceptable for the PCM to command a 4-3 downshift at speeds up to about 74 MPH. Under load, when the transmission is commanded to downshift from 4th to 3rd with a PMT1, the truck maintains power to the ground and the RPM stays in an acceptable range. Conversely, with a PMT2, the transmission will downshift and the RPM will rocket right up to 3200-3300 RPM and put ZERO power to the rear wheels for those 2-2.5 seconds that I mentioned earlier. I say "zero" power because the maximum commanded fuel rate at 3300 RPM is laughable (or dreadful, take your pick).

In the grand scheme of things, the particular strategy that's best for a particular person or type of duty the truck performs will be determined only after much scrutiny of trying different base strategies. I pick PMT1 for my 2000 (even though it has and does tow fairly heavy at times) over all of the others I've tried. A short list of those strategies is as follows:

MRT2
NVK2
NVK3
NVK4
PMT1
PMT2/3 (no difference)
MNM0
MNM1

Keep in mind that a couple of these strategies share one or two traits with PMT1, but as an example, NVK4 will release the torque converter clutch with the application of the service brakes. That's stupid. PMT1 will keep the torque converter clutch applied indefinitely as long as the road speed and RPM are high enough. A couple of them won't apply the torque converter clutch in 3rd gear unless the TCS (OD off button) is activated and the speed in 3rd gear is above that of a typical 4th gear upshift or unless the driver is very aggressive. A few of them are livable, but a couple of them fall downright into the middle of the "WTF were they thinking" bin (MRT2). As I had mentioned earlier, a particular vehicle that I use at work has an NVK3....which I have tried in the past in a personal truck and couldn't remove the chip fast enough. It was that bad (to me anyway). While the NVK3 sucks driving this particular work truck without a load, it really shines when loaded to 24,000 lbs. +. PMT1 is unbearable in this truck.

The next thing you may ask would be somewhere along the line of, "Can't you tune it to DO/NOT DO that?" Certain aspects are "fixable". However, most are not or may not be without a ton of time experimenting with undefined addressing. In this case, since the aforementioned truck is not my personal vehicle, I will just use what I know works and build from there. The torque converter clutch release upon braking isn't "fixable" unless you can live with cruise control that MUST be shut off with the steering wheel button because it will also kill the cruise cancel with the brake pedal. The upshift/downshift pressures can be altered as can the torque converter apply/release speeds. Furthermore, I'm not saying that the reapply delay isn't possible to change, but from my experience Ford's programming in that area is pretty steadfast and doesn't change much if at all regardless of tuning parameter alterations.

I hope this helps.

 

I wouldn't say that the calibration strategy is to blame as the PMT1 tunes are just as (if not more so due to being the most popular/plentiful) tunable in the shift pressure area as anything else out there and can be as soft or as firm as can be. I would say that it's possible that the tuning for the 2-3 shift may not be aggressive enough for your particular transmission. The main thing to take into consideration is that these trucks (mostly that the last PMT1-able trucks) rolled off of the assembly line a dozen years ago. Things degrade over time and it's becoming increasingly difficult to make one-size-fits-all tuning. While most people will never notice a problem, there are those trucks that just do not respond well to what thousands of other trucks are running and special considerations need to be made in these cases.

 

Sure does, thank you.

 

I've made statements along these lines for a while now. While being shouted down the mountain, I had to wonder if there was something I was overlooking. I stood firm in my belief because I do understand the nature of machines in general, and now I see a programmer sharing this view.

How the heck does a programmer tune for somebody who got their mystery injectors off Ebay. How about a sticky IPR causing problems that the driver blames the tune for? What about weak transmissions or malfunctioning coast clutches? Injectors with leaky O-rings? Dusted turbo? Some consumers want to throw a chip on the truck like a party girl takes the morning-after pill, to compensate for failure to plan ahead. "My friend has XYZ chip in a truck like mine and his drives nicer". His friend likely has a truck in better condition, is properly equipped for the tune, or has provided better intel to his tune programmer.

 

Unknown injectors. Dynomite Diesel and Industrial Injection come to mind right away too. They won't give specifics and don't rate their injectors the "right" way so everything we do with those is a giant guess....and I try to make sure the customer knows that it's likely we'll play "chip tag" a time or two before the truck runs nicely. Sometimes the guess works and sometimes not.




It happens, but it's not really that common because a failing/sticky pressure regulator will USUALLY show up running "un-tuned". Now, people who think that tuning will fix a mechanical issue with the truck are smoking crack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tugly

What about weak transmissions or malfunctioning coast clutches?

There's little that can be done with a transmission that has considerable glazing on the friction material and steels. Sure, the pressure can be jacked up (and it's a step that I have taken on one of my personal trucks since it slips in 3rd and 4th - but it's getting rebuilt as soon as the roads ice up and I can't drive it anymore this year). As far as "malfunctioning" coast clutches, it really depends on if there's a mechanical failure (won't apply due to check ball or snap ring failure) or if it's simply burned up. Again, one would typically notice this failure on stock programming as well beforehand or else wouldn't notice that anything was wrong since the truck would act the same after the "tuning" was installed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tugly

Injectors with leaky O-rings?

Again, this would fall under the "should have seen it coming" and "tuning won't fix a mechanical problem" category.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tugly

Dusted turbo?

Ditto. However, unless the compressor blades are completely gone, the performance loss isn't really that noticeable by the seat of the pants feel. It's at this point that we get to reduced compression (base engine mechanical issue) and other variances in tune effectiveness come into play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tugly

His friend likely has a truck in better condition, is properly equipped for the tune, or has provided better intel to his tune programmer.

Sometimes, although it's much simpler than that every so often. Certain calibrations are really oil sensitive (especially one tune in particular that isn't on my "like" list anyway) and just running a different brand/weight of oil (or changing it more often than every 5-7K miles) will make or break the tunes.

I wouldn't say that "better condition" counts unless there is a blatantly obvious mechanical failure. I've seen MANY worn-out, beat up, neglected, and abused trucks run significantly better than ones that are taken care of reasonably well. It's the whole "judging a book by its cover" deal.

Properly equipped? With tuning for stock trucks, two identical trucks SHOULD run the same but it's rarely the case. It all boils down to the individual trucks and it seems that every year that goes by a larger gap in the performance spectrum between each truck is created (performance meaning all operating conditions).

 

Cody, I love how you take the time to explain tuning. I really appreciate that, and its the main reason I chose PHP tunes. 3 weeks ago I didn't even know that different PCM codes could create such a variance in behavior between trucks. Now I'm thinking about Minitaur lol. Still learning how my VDH5 works, and paying a hell of a lot closer to what I'm feeling. Can't wait to tow with the chip next month to see how it behaves.

 

Subscribed, and bookmarked. Thanks Cody.

 

Cody, do you know if Bill replaces VDH5 with the PMT1 for the base? I know you put the BDH5 in the "really sucks" category...