Fuel Pump Answers!
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,399
Likes: 188
From: Norco,CA
You say you got stage 2's. So what are they? 160, 80 over or what. I know Robin runs 200, 80 over and runs a stock fuel system with no problems. He though his dyno numbers where high at RRE two years ago but where 486 HP I believe he said. Haven't seen him on here in a while but I'm sure he'll tune in if around. On this one I'm with Joe except I believe the inside tank mods should be done. This is because I haven't done mine and believe I have a problem with air.
Chet
Chet
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,500
Likes: 14
From: South Carolina
Translate that statement into number(s).
I am curious (not really any of my business) of how much you are willing to invest in order to try (no guarantees) to get to your target/goal/specific/etc.
This thread reads as though you are investing at least $4000 (this time) to tweak it to get closer to the results you want.
I find the situation interesting.
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 797
Likes: 2
From: UT
Hummm... all websites trying to sell you a "new" fancy fuel system...
I'm telling you what works, time and time again, not just on "my" truck, but every truck out there.
Get a fuel pressure gauge, and watch it. You will NOT... REPEAT NOT need ANY FUEL SYSTEM MODS to run AC's. None.
100% stock fuel system, dirty fuel filter and all... It will run fine. Up to and well beyond the max rating for the injector...
This goes for 238/80 hybrids as well.
If you want to **** away money on a fuel system at that hp level then by all means do... Your very fond of your PCV potato gun, fill it up again...
YOU DO NOT NEED FUEL SYSTEM MODS TO RUN AC's.
I'm telling you what works, time and time again, not just on "my" truck, but every truck out there.
Get a fuel pressure gauge, and watch it. You will NOT... REPEAT NOT need ANY FUEL SYSTEM MODS to run AC's. None.
100% stock fuel system, dirty fuel filter and all... It will run fine. Up to and well beyond the max rating for the injector...
This goes for 238/80 hybrids as well.
If you want to **** away money on a fuel system at that hp level then by all means do... Your very fond of your PCV potato gun, fill it up again...
YOU DO NOT NEED FUEL SYSTEM MODS TO RUN AC's.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,290
Likes: 2
From: SEMO
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,993
Likes: 2
From: Bend, OR
I started to see some fuel pressure drops with mine, with the 100% nozzles. again this was a completely stock fuel system.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,051
Likes: 4
From: Caro, MI
So... I stirred up another conflict while I was researching the proper feeding of Stinky, the wonder truck. In this conflict, I speculated the stock pump was good up to 33 GPH (top limit for AC160s) at 45 PSI - based on the information I could find at the time. It was countered that the stock pump is good for much more, but there is no data to specify how much more. I've talked to a number of people in the diesel business and the common answer was "It depends on your injectors and your tuning." Apparently, I'm speaking Geek and failed to translate what my goal is. I'm not asking if it will work, I can figure that out on my own - if I can just get the silly flow numbers. Here are all the part numbers for the pump:
Motorcraft: PF1
Ford: F81Z9C407AC
Bosch original: 0 580 464 074
Bosch replacement: 69136
<!-- / message -->
I conducted every internet search possible - zip. I called Ford and they don't have that data. I finally called Bosch (manufacturer) and they have the data, but the pump is proprietary - which makes the data proprietary. He could tell me the pump is spec'd for 50-65 PSI, but no more. I can do a test to see what it pumps at 60 PSI, but this is starting to get silly. Maybe I can conduct a flow test when I'm bored, but I think I'll just settle for a fuel pressure gauge and go from there.
Some might say "But-Tugly, you can get a Walbro 392 or a Bosch 044". I have complete charts on these units and they are really great performers... but they are not rated for durability like the original Bosch pump for the 7.3L. I looked at Air Dogs and Fass systems, but they are rated at 100 GPH and I don't know their durability - plus they're expensive. The 5/16" fuel line to the engine is rated at 72 GPH max. Ford had the original pump special-made for them and I'm not sure we can find a better one for longevity. Many have used twin stock pumps to get the flow and durability they seek, and this has the added benefit of limp-home capability if a pump goes out. Clay has them on the shelf for $150 and I could just tee in a second pump if mine isn't up to the task. That is just too cool.
Motorcraft: PF1
Ford: F81Z9C407AC
Bosch original: 0 580 464 074
Bosch replacement: 69136
<!-- / message -->
I conducted every internet search possible - zip. I called Ford and they don't have that data. I finally called Bosch (manufacturer) and they have the data, but the pump is proprietary - which makes the data proprietary. He could tell me the pump is spec'd for 50-65 PSI, but no more. I can do a test to see what it pumps at 60 PSI, but this is starting to get silly. Maybe I can conduct a flow test when I'm bored, but I think I'll just settle for a fuel pressure gauge and go from there.
Some might say "But-Tugly, you can get a Walbro 392 or a Bosch 044". I have complete charts on these units and they are really great performers... but they are not rated for durability like the original Bosch pump for the 7.3L. I looked at Air Dogs and Fass systems, but they are rated at 100 GPH and I don't know their durability - plus they're expensive. The 5/16" fuel line to the engine is rated at 72 GPH max. Ford had the original pump special-made for them and I'm not sure we can find a better one for longevity. Many have used twin stock pumps to get the flow and durability they seek, and this has the added benefit of limp-home capability if a pump goes out. Clay has them on the shelf for $150 and I could just tee in a second pump if mine isn't up to the task. That is just too cool.
I work for the so called Walbro (new name is called TI Automotive). I work the test center for TI and have a book at work with all of the specs on any pump we make. I am not going to lie, the 392 is probably the most reliable pump we build. We use them everywhere around the test center in hundreds of different fuels and they never quit. We primarily use them to transfer fuel so pressure is minimal but they are awesome pumps. Actually kind of hard to get your hands on because everyone knows how good they are. We keep a secret stash on hand for when we need them. I will try to look up the spec of them tomorrow and provide you with the data.
Thread Starter
|
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,849
Likes: 179
From: Puget Sound
Single-shot165/100 is what Casserly is calling them.
Quote:
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>Originally Posted by Tugly
...that gets good economy empty...
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Translate that statement into number(s).
I get 17-19 MPG now and I just want to keep those numbers at this point. My injectors are due and I've had a lot of feedback that says the ACs won't hurt my economy (maybe even help), but they will help in many other ways and I now understand why. Numbers:
Quote:
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>Originally Posted by Tugly
...I have specifics I'm shooting for to attain my goals, is that what you're asking instead?..
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Instead-interesting. This is growing rather than narrowing (sorry-not intended).
I am curious (not really any of my business) of how much you are willing to invest in order to try (no guarantees) to get to your target/goal/specific/etc.
This thread reads as though you are investing at least $4000 (this time) to tweak it to get closer to the results you want.
I find the situation interesting.
Consider this: {violin music} I never wanted to mod. I just want a reliable vehicle that would pull my next (much bigger) boat, so I bought a Superduty PSD. The word BOAT already used up the acronym for Break Out Another Thousand, so I came up with the Buck$Zooka shortly after I started modding Stinky. I belong to a boating forum and they like the way I word my whines, so they published Stinky's adventures.
Wife wants a canopy - bang. I want a head unit with backup camera - bang. Huff and puff and my transmission slips away - BANG!. What's that noise? Two injectors see the heavenly headlight and I learn the whole exhaust system is well... exhausted - BANG!. I'm trying to keep Stinky healthy, but I keep learning of issues with the truck's design, miles, or age. I got the truck cheap, but I could have bought a really nice boat with the Buck$Zooka ammo that Stinky digested in the last 12 months. This Buck$Zooka round is $4000 up-front and I can't even do all the work myself. I have to drive it over a mountain pass to rip Stinky's guts out... in one day. Many reps should go to 2000ca250 for volunteering to help a fellow FTE member in distress. If this goes well, I'll have an enjoyable drive home. If not, there's a mountain pass between home and my $20,000 worth of upgrades/repairs/mods to the truck... that I paid for in one year... with cash.
If I seem a bit uppity, it's because I am... until Stinky is safe at home and I get my deposit for the cores back. What am I doing with the refund? Tires are due. If the world ends on 12/21/12 like people fear, I'm gunna be pissed because I could have skipped the whole thing and just kept what I had.
I'm always open to more data. I have amassed a huge collection of data on this truck, but my stock fuel pump is a mystery.
Speaking of data, I looked at the 160/stock flow model and I know my truck has the capability to drain the sticks if tuned to do so. I went with the 100% nozzless to have more options in tuning.
Quote:
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>Originally Posted by Tugly
...that gets good economy empty...
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Translate that statement into number(s).
I get 17-19 MPG now and I just want to keep those numbers at this point. My injectors are due and I've had a lot of feedback that says the ACs won't hurt my economy (maybe even help), but they will help in many other ways and I now understand why. Numbers:
Quote:
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>Originally Posted by Tugly
...I have specifics I'm shooting for to attain my goals, is that what you're asking instead?..
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Instead-interesting. This is growing rather than narrowing (sorry-not intended).
I am curious (not really any of my business) of how much you are willing to invest in order to try (no guarantees) to get to your target/goal/specific/etc.
This thread reads as though you are investing at least $4000 (this time) to tweak it to get closer to the results you want.
I find the situation interesting.
Consider this: {violin music} I never wanted to mod. I just want a reliable vehicle that would pull my next (much bigger) boat, so I bought a Superduty PSD. The word BOAT already used up the acronym for Break Out Another Thousand, so I came up with the Buck$Zooka shortly after I started modding Stinky. I belong to a boating forum and they like the way I word my whines, so they published Stinky's adventures.
Wife wants a canopy - bang. I want a head unit with backup camera - bang. Huff and puff and my transmission slips away - BANG!. What's that noise? Two injectors see the heavenly headlight and I learn the whole exhaust system is well... exhausted - BANG!. I'm trying to keep Stinky healthy, but I keep learning of issues with the truck's design, miles, or age. I got the truck cheap, but I could have bought a really nice boat with the Buck$Zooka ammo that Stinky digested in the last 12 months. This Buck$Zooka round is $4000 up-front and I can't even do all the work myself. I have to drive it over a mountain pass to rip Stinky's guts out... in one day. Many reps should go to 2000ca250 for volunteering to help a fellow FTE member in distress. If this goes well, I'll have an enjoyable drive home. If not, there's a mountain pass between home and my $20,000 worth of upgrades/repairs/mods to the truck... that I paid for in one year... with cash.
If I seem a bit uppity, it's because I am... until Stinky is safe at home and I get my deposit for the cores back. What am I doing with the refund? Tires are due. If the world ends on 12/21/12 like people fear, I'm gunna be pissed because I could have skipped the whole thing and just kept what I had.
Tugly,
I work for the so called Walbro (new name is called TI Automotive). I work the test center for TI and have a book at work with all of the specs on any pump we make. I am not going to lie, the 392 is probably the most reliable pump we build. We use them everywhere around the test center in hundreds of different fuels and they never quit. We primarily use them to transfer fuel so pressure is minimal but they are awesome pumps. Actually kind of hard to get your hands on because everyone knows how good they are. We keep a secret stash on hand for when we need them. I will try to look up the spec of them tomorrow and provide you with the data.
I work for the so called Walbro (new name is called TI Automotive). I work the test center for TI and have a book at work with all of the specs on any pump we make. I am not going to lie, the 392 is probably the most reliable pump we build. We use them everywhere around the test center in hundreds of different fuels and they never quit. We primarily use them to transfer fuel so pressure is minimal but they are awesome pumps. Actually kind of hard to get your hands on because everyone knows how good they are. We keep a secret stash on hand for when we need them. I will try to look up the spec of them tomorrow and provide you with the data.
Speaking of data, I looked at the 160/stock flow model and I know my truck has the capability to drain the sticks if tuned to do so. I went with the 100% nozzless to have more options in tuning.
Thread Starter
|
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,849
Likes: 179
From: Puget Sound
Great link! I guess all that reading has paid off: The "experts" already had the conclusions I arrived at. Tried to rep but....
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Thread Starter
|
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,849
Likes: 179
From: Puget Sound
I seem to recall you mentioning that somewhere on a post I read once... I'm trying to remember where that thread was.
The numbers. You gave me the numbers on the Ex. Assuming there's no in-tank pump like some have... I liked the numbers.
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,793
Likes: 50
Tug, you have a Consumer Digest book dont'cha, lol? Friend of mine, its his bible. You can puke coathangers on how "this" product is the best or great..etc, but if you cant back it up, its nothing more than a he/she opinion. Guys' an engineer, and b4 pulling the trigger on an item, he makes damn sure, he's get'n the best bang for dollar....Keep bang'n Tug 
Laughing Gas
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,051
Likes: 4
From: Caro, MI
0 psi = 47 gph = 1.9 amps
10 psi = 44 gph = 2.5 amps
20 psi = 22 gph = 3.1 amps
30 psi = 6 gph = 3.7 amps
Let me know if you are looking for any more info.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,051
Likes: 4
From: Caro, MI
I'm sure that will definitely affect it but we do not have any data for that type of stuff.