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Old 07-06-2012, 02:11 AM
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NOTES on rust removal (JUMP IN!)

~ I recently tried this stuff that I mistakenly thought was NAVAL JELLY rust CONVERTER -

But it wasn't...

It was RUST REMOVER, and I give it high marks for what it does do.

Details tomorrow, but it gets rust off even if you don't flake away the standing hard stuff.

~Stripped the light rust right down to the bare steel where it was light. The active ingrediant is Phosphoric Acid

Unlike the NAVAL JELLY Rust Convertor, it just breaks the rust down so it can be washed away, and if it stays so long that it dries it has to be re-dissolved using more of the same.
*Similar to what happens with A-triple-F

PICTURES TOMORROW of a chassis I treated with it WITHOUT scraping the bad rust away.

The stuff is made by the "Loctite Corporation" (whom we know, most of us)

NAVAL JELLY rust CONVERTOR is another story, and shouldn't be confused with this.
BE SURE WHICH YOU ARE BUYING! THIS provides no rust protection, it just removes it - leaving steel and iron sort of naked...

The NAVAL JELLY we normally think of is similar to "gun blueing" (which is selenic acid). The acid in NAVAL JELLY is another one that I can't think of the name of just now

~A conformal coat that transforms the surface of the metal into something that can't be affected by common corrosion because it has already been chemically turned into something else...


~Wolfie out


*More later
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Old 07-06-2012, 08:51 AM
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The "ingredient" you were looking for is phosphoric acid. It forces completion of the rust cycle and drives out remaining moisture. It does not protect against more rust. My experience is that it works great, and the metal can be lightly sanded before the primer coat, which is needed within a day or two or the metal will begin to rust again.

I use it even when coating with POR-15 or something similar, as I want to seal something that isn't rusted underneath and may still contain moisture.

It will turn the treated metal black, especially where there was rust converted. It amazes me that areas that I thought were "clean" AND RUST-FREE also turned black, indicating that moisture and early rust, not yet visible was forming.
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Old 07-06-2012, 11:58 AM
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"Ospho" converts the rust into a suitable primer.
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Old 07-09-2012, 07:01 PM
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But there is a difference between Rust Remover, and Rust CONVERTOR - isn't there?

It seems to be a two or three stage thing, but where you can't get at places like crevices (MIND YOUR MANNERS, BRUCE!) it can get in there and chemically treat it.

I wonder what the difference is between removers - and CONVERTORS(!)

The CLASSIC naval jelly turns rusted surfaces into places that can never rust again....

*Similar to gun bluing....


If you can use a liquid to get to places that NOT EVEN SAND BLASTING can reach, the game changes, doesn't it?

We get that much closer to total rust removal

-It still isn't the same as total dis-assembly of rivetted together parts of a frame.
But it IS much closer to it


Do you agree?
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Old 07-10-2012, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greywolf View Post
The CLASSIC naval jelly turns rusted surfaces into places that can never rust again....

*Similar to gun bluing....

Do you agree?

I don't believe any product will make it not rust again. If it did, why do they blast, treat and repaint bridges, naval vessels, etc. Rust is insidious, moisture+oxygen+metal. The metal is there, oxygen diffuses through anything (why does a balloon deflate, a tire slowly loose pressure?) The only thing is to try to seal out is moisture. POR-15 type products, powder coating, etc. attempt to create the moisture barrier. The converter/sealer products finish and stop the rusting process, but don't have a "perfect" moisture barrier to keep the process from starting again in days, weeks or months..

(Or just move to the Arizona/New Mexico desert !)
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:32 PM
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The reason for the moisture barrier is to interrupt the electrolysis process -

Which is what common rust really is.
(The chemical combination of metallic ions)

Corrosion is a chemical process (we know now) that is based on a battery cell - like process.

Similar to the classic FIRE TRIANGLE, the corrosion thing is like this:
DONOR material (ANODE)
Electrical path (Contact patch between two or more DIFFERENT metals)
ACCEPTOR material (Cathode)
Electrolytic path (Can be just plain water)

~Interrupt it anywhere along the way, and you can stop it


TAG!

Someone else is it, my brain hurts this morning


But then - anything made of iron will attempt to return to it's natural state, and it freely combines with oxygen to become iron oxide (RUST)


What we do to prevent that is coat it, sealing water AND AIR out


*Please add more to this very interesting topic
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