Ok.. I'm looking at purchasing a 5th Wheel. I've read all over the place about GVWR and Pin Weights and every other term used. I'm so confused.

I have a 2011 F-250 diesel 4 door SRW Lariat. I plan on putting bags and a 50 gallon titan fuel tank on her.

I'm looking to understand what size (weight) trailer I can attach safely to this truck.

How do you calculate Pin weights and all that pertinent information.

I'm a total newbie when it comes to understand 5th Wheel weights

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

Are you attempting to remain within Ford's published weight carrying and towing capacities?

If you are, you will find out that your F250 with it's maximum GVWR of 10,000 pounds will be exceeded quite quickly. The truck weighs over 8200 pounds empty with full fuel and a 150 pound driver. Add a 200 pound fifth wheel hitch, some people and the dog and you get to 8700 pounds in an eye blink. You now have only 1300 pounds of GVW remaining.

Basic rule of thumb is that pin weight on a fifth wheel is about 20% of the total fifth wheel weight. It may vary a little but it is surprising how close that 20% number will be. For example, my 13050 pound Big Horn fifth wheel places 2450 pounds of pin weight on my 2011 F350 CC SB. I am under the 20% but not by much. If you could get the pin weight percentage down to 15%, a 10,000 pound fiver would still put 1500 pounds on the pin...and you are over the rated capacity.

Air bags and overload springs may increase the capacity in your mind but it will not increase the certified Federal ratings for your truck as provided by Ford.

Now to the real world of fifth wheel owners and 250/2500 tow vehicles. BTDT. I pulled the same fiver for 18 months with a 2004 F250 CC SB. I did keep the weight down to 12,000 pounds. The truck handled the load quite nicely. No air bags but the truck had the camper package with the overload springs from the factory. I never felt like the truck was overloaded until I bought the F350 I now own. The difference, while not dramatic, is noticeable.

I would recommend keeping the overall weight of the fiver under 12,000 pounds. Technically you will be over the rated GVW and likely the RAWR. In reality, you will have a great time pulling that fiver to all sorts of fun places. Just load it smart, weigh it at a CATS scale when loaded for camping and adjust the load as necessary. Drive it safely and have fun...

I am hooking mine up today for a weekend trip

Regards

 

yep, lots of numbers in the mess..

for starters there is how much the truck currently weighs
and how much it is 'allowed' to weigh loaded up. (GVWR, on the door sticker, or registration as some states allow you to register for different than the door post sticker)..

then there are the axle weight ratings.. front and rear (fawr and rawr),
which are the 'max' that a particular axle should carry. (scales will help you know what the 'actual' weights are for each).

and then there is the tire ratings. so the max tire ratings - the max axle ratings is the margin.

adding a bunch of stuff to the bed will affect both the front and rear axle weight loads.. mostly the rear of course.
the trailer pin weight counts here..

someone said the other day
take the GVWR - the actual weight
and the RAWR - the actual rear axle weight
and the lower of the two is the max you can CARRY without exceeding
one of the paper ratings.

now there is TOWING.. how much you can PULL..
that is the GCWR (gross combined)..
so you take the rated combined, minus the truck max rating,
and that gives us the max rated to PULL. (which includes the pin weight).

my 250 is rated at 10,000lb gvwr. and my GCWR is 23500. so, from a GVWR I shouldn't 5th wheel TOW more than 13,500, and Ford says no MORE than 15200 (1700 lbs different)..
my truck weights 8400 lbs dry, so 1600 lbs different to my GVWR.

and then there are funky legal towing stuff. the Government says anything combined >26000lbs is 'harder' to manage, and for commercial uses you need a special drivers license (CDL).. but recreational use is exempt in this case..

so, I "shouldn't" carry anymore than 1600 lbs of trailer pin weight and fuel and me.. I REALLY shouldn't carry anything over my rear tire rating - rear axle actual weight, from a safety perspective.

the DRW trucks, the max GCWR is 30,000 or higher.. and the truck GVWR (my 08 at least) was 13,000lbs.

the 10,000 rating on the F250 is a paperwork thing, cause in many states, vehicles above 10,000lbs are 'obviously' only commercial vehicle, but an F150 isn't big enough for some of the load.

Sam

 

One of the problems in doing calculations is knowing the actual weight versus the published weight of whatever fiver you choose. 15 -20% of a hypothetical number results in an illusory calculation. There have been so many recalls due to tires or axles on RVs being overloaded, it gets kind of crazy. If possible, finding a dealer who will allow you to pull your favorite to a CAT scale would be helpful.

Steve

 

The above comments have detailed pretty clearly what you can carry.
F250 are basically chase trucks, to carry small tools and supplies to job site. Soccer dads to games and sportsmen to hunting and fishing. They are rated tow vehicles for Boats, Motorcycles, and utility trailers. The F250 has the same engine, tranny as the heavier F350's, So they can pull as heavy of a load. They just can't carry as much in the bed, which is weight over the trucks axles.

5th Wheel and Gooseneck towing have advantages in that they transfer more of the trailers weight onto the tow vehicle. But that often requires a heavier duty tow vehicle.

Too many folks feel that since it looks like the same truck, has the same power train, that it is capable of towing as big of loads as the heavier trucks. Others feel they can modify a light duty truck to be a heavy duty truck by adding modification. Personally, I think Ford has paid some engineers to evaluate previous trucks and design the new one to meet the specification. I don't trust that myself working on the advice of the teenager behind the parts counter at a local parts house can better engineer the truck.

Stick within the guidelines published in the towing guide and be safe. If you want a bigger 5th wheel, It is easy to trade your truck off and get a heavier model. There are many who do tow 5vers behind F250s and claim it works great. And I respect their opinions, But if an accident happens, I really don't want the added arguement of why I was over weight.

 

Thanks for all the replies. Your responses definitly helped in understand the weight restrictions. Now comes to the fun part of picking through all the fivers out there and find the one that works for me!

 

To my knowledge Ford doesn't even differentiate between the 250/350 SRW in their published towing, GAWR and GCVWR capacities...probably because they are the same vehicles with different badges?

 

When trying to be legal with a 5th wheel trailer, it is more about the truck's capacity for weight carrying than it is the amount it is rated to tow. 5th wheels have heavy pin weights and most times a 5th wheel of any size is going to put an F250 over on both it's GVWR and RAWR. Granted there is a very small chance that any law enforcement will ever pay any attention to the weight of your recreational rig, but it can get sticky if you are involved in an accident and the either the DOT or insurance companies start checking weights on the rig.

 

Go to RV.NET. They are always talking about trailer/5th wheel weights. The weight limits of a travel trailer are less than the weight limits of a 5th wheel. I would guess that with a diesel you would want a 5th wheel.

ken

 

Right. A real concern. My Cedar Creek weighs about 1000 pounds more that advertised. I wanted a 5th wheel that did not weigh more than 13,000 pounds at most. My Cedar Creek 34 SB weighs over 14,000 pounds. However, my 6.7 F350 pulls the 5th wheel okay.

My guess is that you won't be able to weigh a trailer until you sign on the dotted line an give them a deposit.

ken

 

Hi Ken,

Whether you can weigh it before hand depends on the dealer. Making it a condition of sale is fine or asking the actual weight be written as part of the sales contract is also something that can be done. I think if more folks made it a condition of sale it would become commonplace. At least it would never hurt to ask.

I have driven with customers to scales with motor homes before they made the purchase.

Steve

 

You'll need a new drivers seat if you tow at the rated or slightly over payload capacity, then hit some rollers on the highway and bottom the rear suspension.

Watching your 5th wheel roll from side to side while the trucks back wheels get the weight taken off of them is a fill your pants moment.

I used to have an F250, until this happened to me twice in one weekend.

 

Pardon my asking, what did it cost u to switch to the right truck?

 

Apparently less than the cost of new pants!

Steve

 

I know I would have to go weigh my truck on a scale loaded, full of gas, tools etc but I am curious. My truck is a 2012 f350 SRW long bed 4x4. It has the factory hitch installed as well as the 11,500 GVWR sticker. Any idea what this truck weighs and what type of pin weight it would carry legally. I purchased a long bed since we are considering trading in the tag along for a fifth wheel. It won't be until my son leaves the house ( the tag along is a bunkhouse ) but I am curious about the range of fifth wheel I may be able to purchase and drive legally.