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Old Apr 12, 2012 | 02:54 PM
  #16  
DIYMechanic's Avatar
DIYMechanic
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From: Orrville, Ohio
Originally Posted by MC333
Thanks for the example scanners. If I found the ones you were referring to, they all seem to be 250 or more. I've found these links:

AeroForce Interceptor $250
SnapOn CanOBD2 has this one for $280
AutoEnginuity Scanner / Diagnostic - is $250 also. Although the Ford Expansion software is another $200 (is that just for the 99 - 03 powerstroke? though).

I like the idea of the real-time guage and code reader in one, but 250 is a bit steep (didn't see any discount codes on a quick google search). Will the Interceptor talk with the OBS powerstroke PCM the way you referred to above?

Any idea if the ScanGuage II at $160 or this ScanGuage E for $95 will do the same? If not, I'll have to look into the Interceptor.

Thanks again.
Yeah, unfortunately that's ($250+) about the price range you're looking at for the scanners that will "speak PSD". It an ancient dialect; learning the language is very expensive and involves years of training with Tibetan monks, lol.

Negative on the Scangauge II and I doubt it on the ScanGauge E as well since I know the II won't do it. It will read some parameters but won't work fully as a code reader.

One thing that may actually work (I can't believe I am recommending this) is an Edge programmer for a PSD 7.3 truck. They are JUNK for performance use and have been known to fry the PCM when used that way but they can occasionally be had fairly inexpensively and do (reportedly) work pretty well for reading codes. I don't think you can do a buzz test or CCT with them like you can with an Aeroforce Interceptor (lots of guys on here call THIS a Scangauge so you have to be careful of the terminology). I wish I had one to loan out to people as it is a common theme that we find it difficult to read codes on these trucks.

Originally Posted by MC333
Yes. The cut-out is a recent phenomenon that occurred only after the CPS was replaced actually. The CPS was replaced around January of this year, and I started getting the cut-out since maybe mid March if I remember correctly. The engine stumbling has been pretty consistent since early last fall, except for a two-week period after the first trip to the dealer in late October, when the barometric sensor was replaced and exhaust back pressure (valve?) was replaced or cleaned, or whatever they did. After that repair that truck started up great and ran perfect when hot or cold, with block heater plugged in or not. But it lasted only 2 weeks before the engine stumbling began occurring again, and it hasn't really improved significantly since.

I'll get back with the GPR and GP voltage readings this afternoon, and will look into that MAP sensor diagnostic idea and see if I can do that.
With that being the case, I would gamble the $30-40 and get another CPS. It's a good idea to have a spare anyway since the truck is just a boat anchor with out that sensor. It WILL NOT run if they quit altogether. I take it the one that was installed by your mechanic was a Ford part? The ones that come from anywhere but Ford or International are junk and cannot be relied upon.

Check the items discussed above and we will go from there.
 
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Old Apr 12, 2012 | 03:14 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by DIYMechanic
With that being the case, I would gamble the $30-40 and get another CPS. It's a good idea to have a spare anyway since the truck is just a boat anchor with out that sensor. It WILL NOT run if they quit altogether. I take it the one that was installed by your mechanic was a Ford part? The ones that come from anywhere but Ford or International are junk and cannot be relied upon.

Check the items discussed above and we will go from there.
I assume the dealer installed a Ford CPS - but don't know for certain. Will I need an o-ring (CPS O-Ring (Ford) F81Z-12B615-BA) and shim kit (International - 1826583C91) to go with the new CPS?

Also, the CPS has a 94 - 96 part and a 97 - 03 part. If I am early model '97 with the dual harness wiring on the valve cover gaskets (I know that is unrelated to the CPS - but its indicative of early model / late model 97), will I necessarily use the 94 - 96 CPS?

CPS:
(Ford) F4TZ-12K073-C 94-96
(Ford) F7TZ-12K073-B 97-03

As a final question - do any stores carry these parts? A quick search on autozone, advance auto parts and napa (on their websites anyway) showed they did not have the Ford CPS : (F4TZ-12K073-C)
 
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Old Apr 12, 2012 | 03:23 PM
  #18  
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Check your batteries and ground connections. These trucks are notoriously reliant on GOOD batteries.

Also, if you get a CPS, get it from International if you can. They still carry the black ones. I don't think Ford does anymore. The gray ones are supposedly identical, but in reality suck. I've gone through three in the last year and half. If you can't get an international, try Advance Auto Parts if you have one. They carry BWD which is black. I got one a month ago from them and popped it in. I can't say anything about the longevity of it yet. If you find one that works, GET A SPARE! They can cut out at anytime and leave you stranded.

I don't have an AE, but have two friends that do. I have a 96 PSD. AE in OBDII mode won't read my truck. It has to be set to ISO???? in order to read it.
 
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Old Apr 12, 2012 | 03:56 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by MC333
I've had two problems - rough engine and some kind of memory problem with the PCM. The OBDII codes get erased very quickly when the engine light goes out. If I catch a reading with the light on, I can generally get the codes, otherwise it just tells me no codes are present. Do I need a new PCM?

Regarding the engine - if I don't plug the block heater in, I get a fair amount of white smoke and very rough idle until operating temps. If I try to get the RPMs up over 1k for more than 5-10 seconds, engine stalls out / shuts down. Happens very abruptly. Near operating temps I can drive the truck, but even so if I get over 2k RPMs the engine will try to stall out - generally if I give it alot of fuel it will overcome the stall and keep going (with the engine light tripped).

Vehicle is at 126k miles with factory injectors, so I'm going to start by swapping out a set of 8 rebuilt injectors, new glowplugs, glowplug relay, valve cover gasket and at least the under valve wire harness.

I've read through the stickied post on white smoke / cold starts. Are there any special tools that I should get for this job? Torque wrench that goes down to 14 in/lb, as well as a deep, thin-walled 13mm socket for glowplugs, and then a short 10mm(?) socket for valve cover was recommended in that thread. Anything else?

Thanks in advance for any help.
Holy crap! you read that entire thread? you must have plenty of time on your hands. an easier way to test the glow plug relay is to use a digital volt meter. put a probe on each of the large terminals while the key is on. any voltage you read this way is voltage thats NOT getting to the glow plugs. if you get more than .5 to .7 volt and I would replace that relay. Spend the money on one of the code readers that speak PSD. if you get AE with the total ford package it will talk to all your fords. its a no brainer IMO. inspect the uvch too. that means pulling the valve covers. but you should get some experience doing this anyways since you now own a PSD. as far as checking fuel pressure, theres a small brass tire valve looking thing on the side of the fuel filter it will probably have a black cap on it. connect a fuel injection pressure gauge to that port and check the pressure. use the right tool for the job. people will try to tell you that a pen type tire pressure gauge will do but all it will do in my opinion is make a mess and not give you a very accurate reading. on the subject of the fuel filter, change it. and while youre inside the filter can find the small hole on the drivers side inside the can theres a small screen that can get plugged up with crud causing all kinds of mayhem. clean it.
 
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Old Apr 12, 2012 | 06:49 PM
  #20  
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Have some measurements on my GPR and 6 of my 8 GPs (the rear driver side connector is right under the air intake, and didn't want to remove that just yet). Used the battery negative terminal for ground (tried repeatedly to ground to chassis but couldn't get a good ground there, so just used negative battery terminal).

GPR: when ignition is OFF:
+PWR (always on) = 12.35 volts
GP (opposite large terminal) = 0.2mV
small terminal (red/blue wire) = 3.2mV
small terminal (red/green wire) = 3.2mV

when ignition is just turned on (before it clicks off): NOTE: these voltages are a bit low as I didn't have a good connection to neg. battery terminal probably ~0.5 Volts low:
+PWR = 11.0 V
GP = 10.67 V
small term (red/blue) = 10.6V -> 11.86V (after the GPR clicked off)
small term (red/green) = 0.58V -> 11.86V (after the GPR clicked off).

When the GPR clicks off, should both small terminals read the same voltage?

Glow Plugs:
passenger side:
front = 0kOhms
second = 300kOhms
third = 0kOhms
rear = 0kOhms
driver side:
front = 40kOhms
second = 0kOhms
(didn't get the last two)

Seems I have at least a couple bad glowplugs. Forgot to measure battery voltage, but last time I checked (bout 3 months ago) I had 12.6 volts when running on the one battery and about 12.4 volts when running on the other.

Just purchased 2 CPSs from ebay: 94-96.5 Ford 7.3 Powerstroke Cam position sensor 1876736C91 F4TZ-12K073-C NEW (black housing, not sure if they are motorcraft or international since they had both part #s).

Will see what a new CPS does when I receive it. By the way - could anyone give me more details on where the CPS is located? Perhaps a pic? I could take a picture of my engine and try to post or link to it if that helps.

**Update** Re-measured the GPR today and when ignition is on, voltage drop across +PWR and GP terminals of the GPR was about 250mV - so not terrible I would think. Re-verified that both small terminal posts go to 11.8Volts after the GPR clicks off. Its as if this is wired backward or something, and goes to ground to turn the GPR on (the 0.58 volts on the small terminal with red/green wire), and goes to high voltage to turn it off.
 

Last edited by MC333; Apr 13, 2012 at 04:22 PM. Reason: Updated measurements
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Old Apr 12, 2012 | 06:54 PM
  #21  
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CPS is on the front of the motor on the right side. held in by a single bolt. 10mm if I rememeber correctly
 
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Old Apr 12, 2012 | 06:59 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Ken_C
as far as checking fuel pressure, theres a small brass tire valve looking thing on the side of the fuel filter it will probably have a black cap on it. connect a fuel injection pressure gauge to that port and check the pressure. use the right tool for the job. people will try to tell you that a pen type tire pressure gauge will do but all it will do in my opinion is make a mess and not give you a very accurate reading. on the subject of the fuel filter, change it. and while youre inside the filter can find the small hole on the drivers side inside the can theres a small screen that can get plugged up with crud causing all kinds of mayhem. clean it.
Is this a good fuel injection pressure guage? Autozone has that for $18. Regarding the small screen on the driver's side hole in the fuel filter housing, do I need a special tool to extract that small screen? Or is it not removable from the housing? Also, do I need to turn off the fuel somehow when going into the fuel filter housing?

By the way - I tried running the engine (after block heater was plugged in) and noticed that it ran much smoother when the in-dash voltmeter was just to the left of the 'N' in NORMAL. When the gauge moved up to between the 'O' and 'R' after about a minute, it started running rougher. At this point, pressing the accelerator caused some white smoke, and if I got it up over 1.5k RPMs, it would stall out. When I re-started the engine, and with voltmeter to the left of the 'N' again, I was able to go up to 1800 RPMs without any noticeable knocking, but when the voltmeter popped up again the engine got rough and couldn't maintain those RPMs without more fuel. Reading the sticky thread on this subject it seemed that the voltmeter rises when the GPR shuts off. But it seems like the GPR is shutting off before it should or something. Ran great when the GPs were powered but then struggled afterward.
 
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Old Apr 12, 2012 | 07:03 PM
  #23  
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One of these shouldn't have voltage as it's a ground commanded by the PCM
small term (red/blue) = 10.6V -> 11.86V (after the GPR clicked off)
small term (red/green) = 0.58V -> 11.86V (after the GPR clicked off).
 
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Old Apr 12, 2012 | 07:11 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by fordpride
One of these shouldn't have voltage as it's a ground commanded by the PCM
small term (red/blue) = 10.6V -> 11.86V (after the GPR clicked off)
small term (red/green) = 0.58V -> 11.86V (after the GPR clicked off).
That is what I thought as well. I checked it several times after the GPR was clicked off to make sure, but always read 11.86V on both small terminals (when running). Seems the red/green terminal at 0.58V might be a ground (though not a great one), but am sure that neither was grounded after that GPR clicked off. With the ignition off both small terminals were 3.2mV - what seems like a fairly good ground.

Does this mean the PCM is having problems? It did something to the GPR, as the change in voltages suggest. Or is it just a GPR problem? As an aside, I was surprised that the GPR looked brand new. I'm guessing the ford technician put in a new one during one of the service visits. The metal and contacts were all shiny, new bolts, etc. I could take a picture of the GPR and post/link that if it would be helpful.
 
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Old Apr 12, 2012 | 08:05 PM
  #25  
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the pressure gauge you need would screw on to the port. that one looks like it goes inline and therefore would not work. like this
 
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Old Apr 12, 2012 | 08:18 PM
  #26  
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when the engine is off. there is no fuel pressure. the screen can be cleaned while still inside the regulator but not as effectively as if you removed the regulator and gave the screen a good cleaning with compressed air or something like that. be gentle so you dond ruin any orings though
 
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Old Apr 14, 2012 | 12:12 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Ken_C
as far as checking fuel pressure, theres a small brass tire valve looking thing on the side of the fuel filter it will probably have a black cap on it. connect a fuel injection pressure gauge to that port and check the pressure. use the right tool for the job. people will try to tell you that a pen type tire pressure gauge will do but all it will do in my opinion is make a mess and not give you a very accurate reading. on the subject of the fuel filter, change it. and while youre inside the filter can find the small hole on the drivers side inside the can theres a small screen that can get plugged up with crud causing all kinds of mayhem. clean it.
Fuel filter was dirty and replaced that. I removed the small plastic connector in the driver-side hole from the fuel filter housing. This one has had the screen poked out of it, so its just an open connector. Question - should I bother replacing this with a new screened part, or just leave the one with the screen poked out? I ended up buying a fuel filter pressure tester from Advance Auto Parts, to find out after bringing it home that it says not to use on diesel fuel vehicles. Should I ignore this since I assume you are only talking about the low pressure fuel intake into the fuel filter (which should be about 40psi no?), or with diesel fuel eat away at the parts on this thing, and therefore it can only handle gas. The one that you linked on ebay said "for gasoline" as well - though it didn't explicity say no diesel. Any thoughts on whether my original guage should work despite the "no diesel" warning?

Anyway - didn't get a fuel pressure reading because of the above, but it definitely has fuel coming to the filter. Originally, I replaced the fuel intake onto the fuel filter housing after cleaning the small screen, without the blue/green o-ring that goes around that screen (it fell below the filter housing and I didnt' see it). When I started the engine, fuel was squirting all over the interior of the block, and after replacing it properly, the fuel filter housing was still over half filled with fuel. Of course, this isn't a scientific measurement of fuel pressure, but anecdotally speaking, there definitely is a decent amount of fuel pressure; whether its at spec pressure I can't say for sure.

I also changed the oil and oil filter, and found out I was a couple quarts low on oil. I had read in a HPOP diagnostic guide that low oil or gummy oil can cause problems in the HPOP or with the injection pressure regulator, which can lead to stalling and poor injector performance, so I put some SeaFoam cleaner in the crankcase, drove about 60 miles and put in a fresh 2.5 gallons of oil.

Will report back to see what these changes do if anything in the next day or two. Meanwhile, I'm waiting on the new CPS to arrive, and am going to order an Aeroforce Interceptor to get those PCM codes.
 
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