Hi folks,

I am certain this has already been addressed before but.... here it goes!

Thinking about swapping a E4OD into my tuck (1986 F250 2WD, 6.9). I realize that they don't have a very good reputation amongst many people but I want something that is a bit more economical without forking out for an overdrive that will fit on my C6. Also, I don't often work the truck hard.... The only thing that concerns me with going for a E4OD for the kind of money I am willing to pay is how well is was taken care of in the past (or how much it was abused)

This is copied from the ad: "1997 E4OD diesel 2wd trans, 376K, works good. $300obo"

1st question: will the 97 E4OD bolt into my 86? I am aware that I will also need the stand alone wiring harness and brain box...

2nd Question: Assuming it has bee taken care of reasonably well and not abused too much, is $300 a good price for the year and mileage?

Thanks in advance, let me have it!

Adam

 

1997 is a good year, but with that many miles (miles or kilometers??) it might as well be treated as a core. It could still be a good transmission to build on, provided all the later updated hard parts are in good condition.

There is also the issue as to how you will drive your speedometer.

That year of E4OD doesn't can't drive a speedo cable, and the VSS was located on the rear differential (ABS sensor for 1987 - up), so figuring out how to get the controller - stock or aftermarket - to talk to the transmission will also be an issue.

The torque converter will be a 6 stud (powerstroke) where the IDI uses a 4 stud.

Once all that is sorted, you can move the transmission cross member back, replace or shorten the drive shaft, and then replace the shift lever on the side of the transmission in order to adapt your C6 style linkage.

 

No idea pricewise.. i dont suppose its in a vehicle you can test drive? Even getting taken care of, thats alot of shifts, and there is alot of different definitions of "works good" among different folks.

 

I'd say , 300$ is a fair price for a tranny that's in good con'd, with no issues.
Verifying this could be a little harder though, since it's not in the truck.
Since it's the E40D, you could ask, what happened to the engine,...?
You could also ask, what was the truck used for,.....?
Would he guarantee it for 30 day's, if it produced any codes, could you get a refund?
The last question will give you a "feel" of the condition of the tranny, if he's hesitant or not on the guarantee.
All in all, it's really a gamble, I wouldn't give a 30 day warranty on a tranny, not at that price, but it's worth a try.

 

Props to David. He directed me on the the same swap for my 86' bronco and it worked out well for me. The aftermarket controller is definitely the way to go if you get the tranny cheap enough. Wiring can be switched over but when I almost had it done I decided I didn't want the complicated mess anyway and got the controller, which is much more simple a system.

$300 sounds like a fair risk to me, but I have rebuilt those trannys so unless you can do that yourself the risk is higher. I'd put it in and just make sure rebuilding the tranny was an acceptable option in case it didn't work well. There are obviously no guarantees, so personally I would keep in mind the possible extra costs you might be faced with if the transmission needed work. Because at that point you would already have money invested in a controller.

 

The 97 E4OD can be converted to run a VSS/speedometer cable. Use the pre 92 output shaft. Check the extension housing for a plastic plug. If it has this plug remove it. Instal a VSS for a 90-91 unit.

If the tranny dose not have the plug. Use a pre 92 extension housing.

 

Thanks for the input everyone.

Pretty well what I've decided is that for the amount I drive in a year (and actually need the more comfortable highway speed) and the cost and time of installing it (assuming it would be fine without a rebuild...) vs the risks associated with such a task I don't think this is for me.

Just for fun, let's say I get a 20% better fuel economy when cruising on the highway (which is probably VERY optimistic). I put in $300 for the tranny, $500ish for the controller plus a pile of work to make it all fit and work good. At that point, I start making my money back in fuel savings. And then, the 376 000 km E4OD needs a rebuilt.... crap!

Thanks again for the input!

 

right.it's all about how many miles you drive per yr,and truck ownership duration plans.
it's not something do to unless you plan on owning the truck for several more years and put some miles on her.
to help you figure things out,you can see David's MPG gains from swapping here:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/7...rs-thread.html

we see his claim of 15mpg to 21 mpg.that's a giant leap of 6 mpg.
you can figure in a 5 - 6 mpg gain difference here,along with ownership duration,cost per gallon,and miles per year to see if its worth it real easy:
Save Money

then,you need to look at your truck objectively (often thats the hard part) to see if it's not just time to buy a newer truck with an E40D already in her.
it's not like 9th gen idi/e40d trucks are what most would call "expensive" with even the higher priced cream puffs just a bit over 5k these days.

 

I've actually allowed the insurance on my truck to run out yesterday simply because I don't need it for the foreseeable future. No sense paying for what I don't need right now.

At my peak use, I was driving it over 200 miles per week, and most of that was on the feeway for our small business. That way, it paid off in the long run.

When I bought it, I could get as low as 9 MPG empty @ 60 MPG. By the time I was finished with the drivetrain updates (gears and transmission), it was hitting 16 MPG with a light trailer attached. Empty was consistenly over 20 MPH for any steady speed below 70 MPH unless it was windy.

One final result I should mention here. My MPGs saw ZERO improvement for short distance stop and go traffic. These trucks have a long warmup time and like to work at steady speeds and the tall gearing hurts more than it helps in the 0-20 MPH range.

 

well david, with the setup you describe there, your numbers sound reasonable. but thinking about my van, i would like to improve economy without huge investments. the van is as described in my sig: 6.9NA, c6, 3.55, 8000lbs. because it weighs 8k and i tow sometimes, i don't think your 3.08 gears would work for me. a turbo can't be found used for a van, so thats $3k for a new one. that leaves me looking at an overdrive. a GV unit sounds good, but is $3k. and i'm not too sure about an e4od. i've heard too many people say they have to rebuild every 100k miles, and for a guy who drives 40k/year, that comes to rebuilding it a little too often for my tastes. with my current setup and driving aggressively, often at 75, i average 14-15MPG.
all things considered, what upgrade would you advise?

 

Those are actually pretty good numbers considering the setup (and cruising speed). Not sure what you are paying for diesel in your neck of the woods but if we assume $4 / gallon (3.78L gallons), and 40k miles per year @15MPG, that works out to $10 666 in fuel annually.

$3000 doesn't seem like quite as much after looking at that. If you had to rebuild the transmission every second year, you would likely still be at a net savings with that many miles.

The 100k mile rebuild interval is mostly from earlier versions that were rushed to market before all the bugs were worked out. Ideally, the E4OD would have been ready for 1987, but even when it came out in late 1988, it was still too early. Fly by night transmission shops also did cut rate rebuilds that left weak hard parts installed to cut costs (resulting in more pemature failures). Properly built, an E4OD is as hard to kill as the best transmissions out there. There were plenty of E4ODs that racked up far more than 100k miles, but owners generally don't complain when that happens.

The only time you would have problems with 3.08 (3.07 in the case of a dana 61) is at low speed and steep inclines (like a boat ramp with 5000lbs behind you). I guarantee you, there will never be a situation on the highway when a lower gear ratio than 1st will be needed even with that tall an axle ratio.

As for what I would install? an E4OD. It gives you a taller overdrive than the auxiliary transmission, and locking torque converter, so peak for peak, the MPGs with the E4OD will always out perform the C6/GV combo. You also get slightly more low speed grunt from the wider 1st and 2nd gear ratios.

Its still up to $3000 invested on a vehicle that likely has a listed market value of less then that, but as you can see, the fuel bill swamps out the resale value anyway.

I think hypermax offers a van compatible turbo kit that is around $2000, but the MPG improvement will be fairly small under most conditions.

Finding a dana 61 semifloater rear axle with factory 3.07s would be a tall order, but not impossible. This would be by far the cheapest and lowest risk option. You might not be completely satisfied, but at the same time, you won't spend anywhere near as much as on a transmission or turbo so its not so big a risk. You can always swap the original back if you don't like it.