All I can tell you Mark, That Hemborg ford here in Norco, Ca changed alot of them out when the customer pushed them. They won't do it now, but after the first few years they started doing it. God bless,

Chet

 

Ford changed A LOT of noisy '99 torque converters on their dime. That doesn't mean there was a recall, because there was not. It was done to try and keep the customers happy. By law recalls are ONLY done for safety or emissions problems, not noise.

 

Well as I try to find info on what will cause 4R100 torque converter failure I also had to look at the trans pump since it feeds the t.c. and Racer X had pointed out the pump bushing problems. So as I went looking into replacement pump parts for the pump I found a few Sonnax parts that address these issues.

**Line-To-Lube Pressure Regulator Valve http://www.sonnax.com/system/announcement/36424-04K.pdf

**TCC Control Sleeve Assembly http://www.sonnax.com/system/announcement/36424-08K.pdf

**Front Lube/ Converter Drainback Valve http://www.sonnax.com/system/announcement/36425-01K.pdf

So as I keep digging into what can cause torque converter problems it has alot to do with how effectively the pump feeds the t.c. I am having a hard time finding info or finding people in the know willing to share what can, does and will cause these problems. But there are many who tell you if you buy their product you won't have these problems with their trans/ t.c.

But like I have said before I just want to understand what causes these problems.

 

It seems to me you are asking them to share proprietary info that they have spent years , & a (few ) bucks developing ..

My WAG , when the original TC was designed , they used what they thought they could get by with , as in most mass produced products ..

We all learn by our mistakes ,even ford has an upgrade .. You may be able to get the info you want from them ...

Hindsight is always 20/20 ..

The 4R100 trans was designed to slip to smooth out the shifts . (Customers most likely wanted their "trucks " to shift like a car )...Its programmed into the PCM . Durable long lasting TC's have a firm positive lock.. The requested slip causes heat.. Heat causes failure .. .

Trans builders have known this for a long time & have done what they can to accommodate the programmed slip (better built TC's )

I do know how to keep the slip out of the picture ..

I could tell you ,


but then I would have to kill you

 

Rick you make some good points but when it comes to "sharing proprietary info" I disagree. Because I am NOT asking these companies to share HOW they fix the problems I just want to know what these issues are. And if they feel that sharing what these problems are as being "proprietary" then I that just makes me feel like a mushroom. Keep in the dark and feed Bulls**t. And I don't mean to sound negative but it just rubbs me the wrong way. It almost makes me wish I had the money and know how to go out and buy their product and reverse engineer their product and share it with everyone. But luck for them I don't have the money or the know how to do so. But it does make me wonder if some of these companies "proprietary" sercets are a product of them doing their own reverse engineering. Hell the Chinese do it all the time. I'm just saying!!!

And when you make statements like "I do know how to keep the slip out of the picture ..I could tell you ,but then I would have to kill you." It makes me want reiterate I am NOT asking for the solution for the problems! Because that could be "proprietary". But thank God most people on this forum don't have that philosphy about sharing helpful information on how to improve on the factory design flaws.

So once again thank you for making some good points and your input. And I thank everyone for their input on this subject and FTE for being a place I can go to get answers to my questions. But I guess I should just leave the Q&A about torque converters to the experts. I guess I really don't need to be a educated comsumer. And when it comes time to buy a new transmission and torque converter I'll just have to go on blind faith as to who builds the best product. Actually I'll just buy the one with the best warranty.

 

Great thread guys

I just have a simple question.

Is the 4R100 on a 7.3 diesel .(99 4X4), especially hard to get the TC seated?

Just put a new seal in and torque converter, and I should know this but i acts like it is not seated, cuz I have about a 3/4 inch gap all around .

Need any more info will be glad to supply it, jsut getting to old to wrestle with this stuff and debating whether to take it all the way down.

I gat it backed up so i can turn the converter, and wiggle it a bit.

Is there a spec from the bell housing that the converter body or the bolts should be set back? I can use a straight edge and a ruler..

Well you get the gist of the question, any and all responses welcome

Ty in advance

 

I really don't know what you want. The convertor should be on the trans before you bolt it up the the fly wheel. So convertor on the trans, bolt trans up, then slid convertor forward and bolt to fly wheel.

Chet

 

yeah like i said, its such a stupid question
Yes of course you gotta put the converter in the tranny and on the shaft.

Yes in all the other transmissions i used to do, sometimes the converter had to be wiggled and seated in the pump before you started to put it up into the car.

If you let it slip out a bit, and dint reseat it before you mated the bell-housing, you could end up wedging it against the flywheel

Now being aware of this, I visually inspected the space and I thought it looked right, but apparently not, because i cant mate the bell-housing and the flywheel against the TC is way to tight.

So I guess I am asking what I already suspect to be true, the TC is not in far enough, or in other words, "seated"

From all my experiences with auto trans, it smells like and feels like thats the problem.

Just never did 4R100 and I guess my instinct was off, and wanted you guys advice. "Does this particular TC in this tranny set back farther, or seat tougher and more difficult than would seem usual?"

Maybe its just my old bones talkin to me

Thanks for the answer

 

To check the seating of the torque converter.
Place the straightedge across the converter housing.
Make sure there is a gap between the converter pilot face and the straightedge.
See Ref #2 in the picture.

 

Thx
Yeah there was that gap, and even the bolts on the converter were set back

I brought all up square to the back of the block, and it all seemed good
Got pins lined up, an inch out from block the bolts from the TC were just entering the flexplate
Tried to slide it all up and it all stopped when the TC was flush with the flexplate

Referring to bonanzas post, the TC did not have any play to "slide it up the the flywheel", after mating up the housing to the block. Couldn't even get the housing up to the block, and TC is allready up tight to the flywheel all around.

(In case you were wondering if the was a chipmunk up inside in the end of the Crankshaft pilot hole)

Hoped that someone might shed some light on this, specially you guys who do this every day for a living. I understand, and also know about those times when things don't go the way they should either...usually that's when the professional gets the basket case, I've had my share, lol

A buddy of mine told me that you have to get them seated and it can be tricky. As I read this I tend to believe he is right.

Well it's not gonna fix itself so back to it

Any more advice is allways welcome and I will update if and when I get ER done

(Geez with all the dumb trans that I have done, why?)

It's usually something dimple that's overlooked, like the instructions

Thanks again guys

 

Ok today got under it and pulled back tranny enough to grab and wiggle the TC

Looked up and the pilot on the TC was out past the bellhousing

So there's the reason

Now to get it back in without dropping the trans

Will update later

 

Interesting information about the TC and trans. I am fortunate that the PO had my tc and trans replaced with a BD unit.

Unfortunately BD does not seem to publish information about the parts or construction in their units.

Still, the truck has been worked hard (mining company) and the trans is working ok. I keep the fluid changed and the filter changed. Includes the tc when I do fluid changes.

Thanks again.

 

Let us know when you got her.

Chet

 

Well won't be today
Warning whining coming up

The place to rent the tranny jack is closed till Monday

It looks like I will have to take out the tranny and TC to see what's up

The truck is starting to lean on the jackstands on the 2x6 blocks under them on the uneven gravel driveway... Cuz I took out one of the jacks from the front to help with pulling the thing back

Need tranny jack.. Looks like Monday


Ok so one of the questions in my mind is also, "is it the right TC?"

Bought it from a trans part jobber and yeah, it was right outta the box rebuilt... But I had the core right there and coulda matched it up but i didn't
They are closed now too

The one thing that makes me wonder is... They asked me if I wanted a heavy duty one, and because I ordered it strait from the make and model and trans type, I assumed they meant by heavy duty, ( made better), if you know what I mean

Doing the normal thing when something goes wrong... Questioning everything, even the simplest thing

So does anybody know out of box knowledge whether there is a difference externally between heavy duty and normal TCs in these vehicles? Namely being a little bit thicker or wider?
Or does the heavy duty description mainly have to do with the internal parts of the TC, like stall speed and quality of parts and workmanship?
Try as I might, can't get it back and I have as good of a grip with both hands right now
Taking it down Monday unless someone has a magic answer

Thanks again and will update later

 

BobinMD, I hope this didn't happen to you:

During transmission installation, if you pull the tranny up with bolts and the converter is not fully seated, (as shown in the image posted by mueckster) it crushes the converter hub and very likely will also damage the transmission pump. We include the above heads up or caution info and proper installation instructions in the box with our converters.
Hopefully the converter was seated and slid outward when you moved the tranny back to re-check it.

I didn't answer the questions I was asked in this thread because there seemed to be no way to do so without bashing other's products.

I'll leave it at this: When choosing a torque converter, there is a huge difference in converter physical size, strength and quality.