Well that is possible, that I crushed the pump

I saw that warning, and because I had checked it visually before I jacked it up, I was not worried about that problem

I never force things anyway

But it is a possibility, that now I will have to repair the pump or hub

Another reason I am dropping it out Monday

It's ok I have rebuilt them years ago a few times, and also had my share of repairs, but don't have the tools anymore soooo

Adventures in transmissions

So what is crushed? Worse case? Is it the whole pump or part of it, or is it worse?

I am posting from my iPhone cuz my Internet is temp down so thanks again for the info and go ahead and tell me, lol, I gotta fix it anyway, I broke it
Net should ne up tommorow

 

I don't know of any company that does publish much information about parts or construction of completed units. Companies selling common shelf parts publish and distribute marketing info, but not how to do what they do.

When we serve as research and technical consultants for new product design, development or pro-type testing for other companies, we are bound by confidentiality agreements and at times by national security law not to disclose privileged or classified information.

All companies who develop their own products spend a great deal of money to do so. Patents and copyright protection are specifically to protect their products from copying or pirating by competitors, as well as the money and time they invested in development of them. We have exclusive proprietary, copyright and patent protected rights to parts, components and custom modification procedures performed during the build of our custom built products. Titles, Copyright and Patent protections have existed longer than the U.S. and are used worldwide.

They provide the same rights and protection titles to real estate and titles to your truck and other vehicles provides you. Every vehicle owner has these rights which prevent others from taking what the owner has worked hard to own and have. Without those protections, what anyone owns and worked hard for would be gone...

I guess the very nature of internet forums just makes the protection rights businesses have put in place easy to be unaware of, or overlooked at times...

 

Well here the update so far..

Had to take down the trans cuz evan after backing off the bell-housing bolts an getting enough room to put my hand son and play with the TC, I still could not get it pushed in...Yeah, I knew it was messed up..

Sp after taking out the TC I could see how the tube was egged, a crushed hub. So not wanting to do this three times, I called the suppier that got me the TC, and asked him about whether he had a new pump also. He said to bring it down with the TC and he would look at it...awesome!

So after pulling out the pump,( and yes, snapping off the plastic filter tube), I brought them both down with the pump halves seperated.

The only damage to the pump was that where the flats for the TC line up with were mushroomed and I had to file them flat again so the new TC would slide in. Easy to do when it is out in your hand, but would have been much easier if i never messed them up to begin with.

After double checking an easy and tight slide on to the new TC, (which I picked up for 1/2 price),I am putting the pump back together and so on.

Does anybody have the torque specs for the pump halves?

Hope this has helped someone. Will tell you when its all done

 

Got the specs thx

 

BobinMD I am glad to see you have things worked out.

Now we all know how hard it is to get anyone to share what makes their product better than the next guy without giving away their sercets about torque converters. But I found this where John Woods is willing to share what the differents are in his and others t.c. But yet he doesn't give away trade sercets. Which is OK by me But does help to see where the problems are and how he goes at solving them.

Here are the three converter clutch materials

Read more: Ford Super Duty 4R100 Tranny Converter Clutch Materials Flat Photo 12

 

Was hoping the damage wasn't already done.

Had you not stopped, but had finished installing the transmission: When the engine was started, the pump gears would bind and break from being pressed against the pump body. The steel debris from the broken gears quickly scores and grinds into aluminum ruining a pump.

Tightening the transmission bolts when a converter isn't fully seated is what creates the force that egg shapes the converter. The same damage happens when pumps are mis-assembled. Also when pumps are misaligned.

Bob, double check and make sure you aligned the pump before assembling it.

 

John doesn't make his own converters. Sonnax doesn't make the clutch materials shown either. Guess who developed them...

 

Your Right JW doesn't build his own t.c. But he does buy t.c. built to the specs he likes or he tell them his specs. And by looking at the photo I would guess it some kind of kevler, carbon fiber materials like the Carbon Fiber bands. 4R100 Carbon Fiber Band Ford 4R100 Transmission
Now as far as who developed them and all the different fiction material out there is something I know NOTHING about. But I would love to learn more about the subject. So if you are willing to share what you know I am all ears. This is the type of information I am in search of.

 

Can anybody put up a diagram of the trans wiring harness routing for this 99 F-250 SD 4X4 4R100?

Thx in advance

 

Bob I am sorry I am no help with what you are looking for but if you start a new thread you have a better chance of getting answer. Then people know what you are looking for since this one is about torque converters

 

Thank you i got done and running fine

 

I was searching for info on torque converter clutch friction material and I found that Sonnax has some info on BorgWarner HTE, HTL, HTX and XTL.
http://www.sonnax.com/downloads/torq...ingDetails.pdf

 

Buzz,
I'm bound by confidentiality agreements. I know it's easy for members to not realize that products are protected by patents. No entrepreneur can risk their business and entire livelihood or having big legal problems by posting or providing copyright or patent protected material, images, drawings, blueprints or specifications. That is the difference between some sponsor members, some businesses and enthusiast members.

All posts by enthusiast members are carefree. An enthusiast member can even post some copyrighted material carefree such as the image posted to check if a converter is fully seated before you try bolting a transmission in. It is a copyrighted image. A sponsor member or any business would be risking a lawsuit and facing ruin if they did the same.
In my case posting or distributing the information you'd like would be breaking enough Federal National Security laws to go to jail. That would ruin anyones life to begin with. Losing the privileged access it took many years of work to have would be one of many lesser troubles! Hope you understand Buzz.

I probably can show you what part of a Trade And Top Secret Notice looks like from a blueprint of something the Defense Dept uses in Ford Trucks that never leave restricted access areas. It will have to be approved and parts of it will be censored. Even part of the notice is something only a few people would otherwise ever get to see!

Also, I can comment on the Sonnax materials you referenced when I have more time to. They are common!

 

Thank you for posting up!! I was starting to think you were just not willing share some of your knowledge with me. And now that you have explained the fine print I'll try not to ask questions that would be asking you to cross the line.

Now you had asked who developed T.C. clutch friction materials. I would love hear who does other BorgWarner, Alto and Raybestos. I won't ask you to explain how and why different clutch friction materials work or don't work. Because the best I can tell they all 3 go at it differently depending on what the app is. Now it also seems to me that Raybestos has been heavy into the R&D on tran and is getting into the T.C. clutch friction materials. Like there Zpak single side clutchs for trans and the High Carbon on their T.C. material for our 4r100 with PWM High Carbon Torque Converters - Raybestos Powertrain And I can only guess that if you are running a NoN PWM that the PowerTorque would work better. Power Torque Torque Converters - Raybestos Powertrain And I am sure Alto and BorgWarner you would also need to pick a friction material that would suit your set up.

So I am hoping you can share some insight on the things you can talk about. Or at least some fundamentals about torque converters. I am just trying to educate myself on how they work and what makes them break. That way I can hopefully see past the smoke and mirrors about the 4R100 torque converter.

 

Well I got a crash course on what some of issues are with the 4R100 from Dino at T.C.T when I went to pick up my custom build triple disc billet t.c with lower stall speed.

Well to start with when I went to his shop they were in the middle of a production run of something other than the 4R100. So my photos are not of the 4R100. But one of the big issues is the stock cover is made with a soft metal and clutch teeth wear in the cover. Hense the sound of mables in there.


Also from the factory they use thrust washer instead of torrington bearing. Here is a photo of a t.c. that has been machined so a bearing can be used instead of a thrust washer


Now the stock hubs are not hardened. And need to be up graded to hardened hubs and increase the flange size of hub to help combat ballooning.

Not a very good phot but this is of the upgraded hardened hub installed in my new t.c.

Alot of what Dino from Torque Converter Technology was telling and showing me went over my head but aleast now I have the basics of what a crappy job the engineers did using some of the materials they did and I am sure they might have wanted to use a better set up but the big wigs at FORD shoot them down due to production cost who knows.

But the upside is that there are many Torque Converter builders out there that can and will build a better t.c. than the one Ford put in from the factory. Now from talking to many people and a few builders it starts to get tricky when you making over 500hp. And that is where you just have to trust your t.c. builder because they are going to say the trans took out the t.c. or the trans guy is going to say the t.c. took out the trans. Well I think you see where I am going with that.