DOT weights. What is ticketable?
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,754
Likes: 1
From: Indianapolis
SInce my internet service in Afghanistan is so damned slow I'm not gonna try to dig through the dot sites to show why I posted that- BUT can you prove me wrong? I dare you to put a class C driver in ANY vehicle grossing over 26k and roll him through scales anywhere in the US that he would get stopped and asked for his license. Obviously, for the sakeof argument, we'll not use a TT, thats an easy one. CLASS A motorhomes are called that for a reason so you can't use that. Dump truck? Ryder rental truck w/ car trailer AND over 26k, Nope. SO PLEASE tell me what vehicle a person w/o a CDL can legally drive over 26k....
OK, I live in Ca, and got my license there. Again please show me where it says that if I am an owner operator of a small towing company, and I pull a 12k car trailer behind a F-250 weighing 7k, and I register it at 20k, that I have to have a CDL- I DON'T......
And lastly, I don't know all states, but I do know that some states, like Ca, require BOTH MC and DOT to operate, as a base state, out of CA. Some only require the DOT since that can be tracked anywhere. When I said "NOT FOR HIRE- PROFIT" that means I run, for example, a 9 car car carrier exclusive for a dealer, the truck and trailer are owned by the dealer, and are NOT FOR HIRE to other companies. I would still need both MC AND DOT.
SO again, please, for the benefit of us all, please show me where I'm wrong. It's 940 pm and I'm going back to my tent for the night.....
OK, I live in Ca, and got my license there. Again please show me where it says that if I am an owner operator of a small towing company, and I pull a 12k car trailer behind a F-250 weighing 7k, and I register it at 20k, that I have to have a CDL- I DON'T......
And lastly, I don't know all states, but I do know that some states, like Ca, require BOTH MC and DOT to operate, as a base state, out of CA. Some only require the DOT since that can be tracked anywhere. When I said "NOT FOR HIRE- PROFIT" that means I run, for example, a 9 car car carrier exclusive for a dealer, the truck and trailer are owned by the dealer, and are NOT FOR HIRE to other companies. I would still need both MC AND DOT.
SO again, please, for the benefit of us all, please show me where I'm wrong. It's 940 pm and I'm going back to my tent for the night.....
Joe28443
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,163
Likes: 4
From: Hampstead NC
No it's not.
How do you come up with such BS?
Again, not true. CA requires a CDL for commercail trailers over 10k GVWR.
Everywhere else you can drive a straight truck up to 26k without a CDL and combinations up to 36k depending on the trailer size.
Not for hire doesn't need MC numbers. DOT numbers maybe.
How do you come up with such BS?
Again, not true. CA requires a CDL for commercail trailers over 10k GVWR.
Everywhere else you can drive a straight truck up to 26k without a CDL and combinations up to 36k depending on the trailer size.
Not for hire doesn't need MC numbers. DOT numbers maybe.
I agree with you
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,575
Likes: 11
From: Puyallup, WA
SInce my internet service in Afghanistan is so damned slow I'm not gonna try to dig through the dot sites to show why I posted that- BUT can you prove me wrong? I dare you to put a class C driver in ANY vehicle grossing over 26k and roll him through scales anywhere in the US that he would get stopped and asked for his license. Obviously, for the sakeof argument, we'll not use a TT, thats an easy one. CLASS A motorhomes are called that for a reason so you can't use that. Dump truck? Ryder rental truck w/ car trailer AND over 26k, Nope. SO PLEASE tell me what vehicle a person w/o a CDL can legally drive over 26k....
Ok, the DOT class A & B rules are for COMMERCIAL vehicles. The Federal Commom Carrier rules therfore do not cover private not for hire vehicles. There is a EXACT description to be found as to what defines a Commercial vehicle.
States vary. Washington state commercial rules do not not cover Private, non commercial vehicles. While rental companies may not rent over 26k, there is NOTHING in the rules that prevents YOU as a PRIVATE owner going out and buying your own Semi for personaly transportation.
What and how CA regulates is something that is paticular to that state.
Also as well, most states have point of entry scales where they check on paperwork, licensing and such. Chances are pretty good that having the wrong weight, permit or class of commercial license would get caught at that scale. Now in state with that states plates, much less of being stopped and your paticular CDL license checked, unless it was part of a obvious saftey / general equipment check.
Now from a Insurance perspective, up to 26k in Private service is a whole lot cheaper than over 26k, basicly because they figure most people would not own a semi as a daily driver unless it was really being used commercialy.
You still have to carry "commercial" insurance even though it is noted that it is for private use only. That is because the insurance companis put a upper weight limit on what a normal car policy covers.
OK, I live in Ca, and got my license there. Again please show me where it says that if I am an owner operator of a small towing company, and I pull a 12k car trailer behind a F-250 weighing 7k, and I register it at 20k, that I have to have a CDL- I DON'T......
Again, according to the federal rules, if being used commercial (Remember, the rules do not apply privatly) YOU DO NOT. Bu what CA requires I cannot say. The towing vehicle has a GVWR under 26k and the whole rig (GCWR) totalled together does not add up to over 26k. BUT AGAIN, different states may be more restictive, in Washington, it is ANY trailer with a GWR of 10001 lbs or more, LOADED or not, and regardless of what you are towing it with.
And lastly, I don't know all states, but I do know that some states, like Ca, require BOTH MC and DOT to operate, as a base state, out of CA. Some only require the DOT since that can be tracked anywhere. When I said "NOT FOR HIRE- PROFIT" that means I run, for example, a 9 car car carrier exclusive for a dealer, the truck and trailer are owned by the dealer, and are NOT FOR HIRE to other companies. I would still need both MC AND DOT.
[I]If that car dealer is moving those cars on that trailer for profit, IE so they can sell them, then it is a Commercial vehicle as it is engaged in profit making. If you were a car collector and only using that trailer for your own private collection, then it would be considered NON commercial from a FEDERAL rules standpoint. [/I]
Agian, I will keep stating this - FEDERAL COMMERCIAL RULES MAY BE DIFFERENT FROM YOUR STATES RULES. State rules have to be at least as stringent as the Feds, but in many states, Washington included, they are more stringent or restrictive.
ALSO, IMPORTANT! Commercial trucks are EXACTLY described in teh rules, if your truck does not fall under those rules, then it is Private use and the Commercial rules do not apply.
SO again, please, for the benefit of us all, please show me where I'm wrong. It's 940 pm and I'm going back to my tent for the night.....
Ok, the DOT class A & B rules are for COMMERCIAL vehicles. The Federal Commom Carrier rules therfore do not cover private not for hire vehicles. There is a EXACT description to be found as to what defines a Commercial vehicle.
States vary. Washington state commercial rules do not not cover Private, non commercial vehicles. While rental companies may not rent over 26k, there is NOTHING in the rules that prevents YOU as a PRIVATE owner going out and buying your own Semi for personaly transportation.
What and how CA regulates is something that is paticular to that state.
Also as well, most states have point of entry scales where they check on paperwork, licensing and such. Chances are pretty good that having the wrong weight, permit or class of commercial license would get caught at that scale. Now in state with that states plates, much less of being stopped and your paticular CDL license checked, unless it was part of a obvious saftey / general equipment check.
Now from a Insurance perspective, up to 26k in Private service is a whole lot cheaper than over 26k, basicly because they figure most people would not own a semi as a daily driver unless it was really being used commercialy.
You still have to carry "commercial" insurance even though it is noted that it is for private use only. That is because the insurance companis put a upper weight limit on what a normal car policy covers.
OK, I live in Ca, and got my license there. Again please show me where it says that if I am an owner operator of a small towing company, and I pull a 12k car trailer behind a F-250 weighing 7k, and I register it at 20k, that I have to have a CDL- I DON'T......
Again, according to the federal rules, if being used commercial (Remember, the rules do not apply privatly) YOU DO NOT. Bu what CA requires I cannot say. The towing vehicle has a GVWR under 26k and the whole rig (GCWR) totalled together does not add up to over 26k. BUT AGAIN, different states may be more restictive, in Washington, it is ANY trailer with a GWR of 10001 lbs or more, LOADED or not, and regardless of what you are towing it with.
And lastly, I don't know all states, but I do know that some states, like Ca, require BOTH MC and DOT to operate, as a base state, out of CA. Some only require the DOT since that can be tracked anywhere. When I said "NOT FOR HIRE- PROFIT" that means I run, for example, a 9 car car carrier exclusive for a dealer, the truck and trailer are owned by the dealer, and are NOT FOR HIRE to other companies. I would still need both MC AND DOT.
[I]If that car dealer is moving those cars on that trailer for profit, IE so they can sell them, then it is a Commercial vehicle as it is engaged in profit making. If you were a car collector and only using that trailer for your own private collection, then it would be considered NON commercial from a FEDERAL rules standpoint. [/I]
Agian, I will keep stating this - FEDERAL COMMERCIAL RULES MAY BE DIFFERENT FROM YOUR STATES RULES. State rules have to be at least as stringent as the Feds, but in many states, Washington included, they are more stringent or restrictive.
ALSO, IMPORTANT! Commercial trucks are EXACTLY described in teh rules, if your truck does not fall under those rules, then it is Private use and the Commercial rules do not apply.
SO again, please, for the benefit of us all, please show me where I'm wrong. It's 940 pm and I'm going back to my tent for the night.....
Just a thought, I am not sure why people expect a exact answer from someone living in another state on what there paticular states rules are, but the federal rules (commercial) apply nationwide (America) with paticular - those states only - exceptions for Alaska & Hawaii.
As the privatly owned trucks (and RV's) only get bigger, I imagine that this is something that the states will have to deal with, already some states are requiring larger motorhome drivers to have a different license than just a car license.
Point of interest - Washington state restricts Air Brakes if you do not pass that section of the CDL test for Commercial vehicles. BUT a private person can drive ANY truck or motorhome without and special Air Brake testing.
David
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
SInce my internet service in Afghanistan is so damned slow I'm not gonna try to dig through the dot sites to show why I posted that- BUT can you prove me wrong? I dare you to put a class C driver in ANY vehicle grossing over 26k and roll him through scales anywhere in the US that he would get stopped and asked for his license. Obviously, for the sakeof argument, we'll not use a TT, thats an easy one. CLASS A motorhomes are called that for a reason so you can't use that. Dump truck? Ryder rental truck w/ car trailer AND over 26k, Nope. SO PLEASE tell me what vehicle a person w/o a CDL can legally drive over 26k....
So yes a dumptruck doesn't require a Class A, travel trailer doesn't need a class A here, a truck with a GVWR of 26k towing a trailer with a GVWR of 10k doesn't need a class A or CDL at all.
Why can't I use class A motorhome? Class A motorhome doesn't need a class A to drive. Maybe a class B depending on the state but it wouldn't here.
OK, I live in Ca, and got my license there. Again please show me where it says that if I am an owner operator of a small towing company, and I pull a 12k car trailer behind a F-250 weighing 7k, and I register it at 20k, that I have to have a CDL- I DON'T......
Who Needs a CDL?
A commercial motor vehicle is a motor vehicle or combination of vehicles that:
•Tows any vehicle with a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more.
A commercial motor vehicle is a motor vehicle or combination of vehicles that:
•Tows any vehicle with a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more.
[/quote]And lastly, I don't know all states, but I do know that some states, like Ca, require BOTH MC and DOT to operate, as a base state, out of CA. Some only require the DOT since that can be tracked anywhere. When I said "NOT FOR HIRE- PROFIT" that means I run, for example, a 9 car car carrier exclusive for a dealer, the truck and trailer are owned by the dealer, and are NOT FOR HIRE to other companies. I would still need both MC AND DOT.[/QUOTE]
You don't need a MC number unless you are for hire. I guess my word will have to do for now.
Last edited by Crete; Apr 1, 2012 at 09:24 PM. Reason: Fixed quote tags
Senior User
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Ok, the DOT class A & B rules are for COMMERCIAL vehicles. The Federal Commom Carrier rules therfore do not cover private not for hire vehicles. There is a EXACT description to be found as to what defines a Commercial vehicle.
States vary. Washington state commercial rules do not not cover Private, non commercial vehicles. While rental companies may not rent over 26k, there is NOTHING in the rules that prevents YOU as a PRIVATE owner going out and buying your own Semi for personaly transportation.
I am private and not for hire. I still need a CDL. This is the same nationwide. It's part of the federal standard.
in Washington, it is ANY trailer with a GWR of 10001 lbs or more, LOADED or not, and regardless of what you are towing it with.
Point of interest - Washington state restricts Air Brakes if you do not pass that section of the CDL test for Commercial vehicles. BUT a private person can drive ANY truck or motorhome without and special Air Brake testing.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,575
Likes: 11
From: Puyallup, WA
Crete,
Nope, sorry YOU are wrong. Federal commercial regulations ONLY cover COMMERCIAL trucks as defined in the federal regulations. States vary, although NONE of the states COMMERCIAL regulations apply to non commercial uses, but states may have a more stringent licencing standard based upon weight / equipment.
Respectfuly, please do not private messege me either, I care NOT to have anything to do with you, nor do I care to argue with you. You are now on ignore.
Thank you, David
Nope, sorry YOU are wrong. Federal commercial regulations ONLY cover COMMERCIAL trucks as defined in the federal regulations. States vary, although NONE of the states COMMERCIAL regulations apply to non commercial uses, but states may have a more stringent licencing standard based upon weight / equipment.
Respectfuly, please do not private messege me either, I care NOT to have anything to do with you, nor do I care to argue with you. You are now on ignore.
Thank you, David
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
Crete,
Nope, sorry YOU are wrong. Federal commercial regulations ONLY cover COMMERCIAL trucks as defined in the federal regulations. States vary, although NONE of the states COMMERCIAL regulations apply to non commercial uses, but states may have a more stringent licencing standard based upon weight / equipment.
Respectfuly, please do not private messege me either, I care NOT to have anything to do with you, nor do I care to argue with you. You are now on ignore.
Thank you, David
Nope, sorry YOU are wrong. Federal commercial regulations ONLY cover COMMERCIAL trucks as defined in the federal regulations. States vary, although NONE of the states COMMERCIAL regulations apply to non commercial uses, but states may have a more stringent licencing standard based upon weight / equipment.
Respectfuly, please do not private messege me either, I care NOT to have anything to do with you, nor do I care to argue with you. You are now on ignore.
Thank you, David
Your posts here are wrong, misleading and disingenuous.
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 396
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Dmanlyr, your nonsense here was starting to sound familiar so I went back and looked and found another thread that shows that you are clueless when it comes to WA CDL requirements and regulations let alone federal.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...ml#post9376643
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...ml#post9376643
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 396
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Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,754
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From: Indianapolis
Hey Crete sorry I didn't chime in earlier about your Class B question- which is kinda silly because knowing that I have my CDL you know that I know what it is. I took, and passed, all my written test in less than an hour (air brake, combination, hazmat, class c refresher, tank) all on the same day. Passed my practical air brake and then driving on the first try also. And I'm not a book smart person (hands on kinda learner). I may not even be an OTR guy either- I will start my own auto transpo company when I get back- but I currently run the day to day operations (VIP and flight coordination) for the Lashkar Gah Provincial Reconstruction Team (joint US/UK/Danish) in Helmand Province. So please forgive me if I can't answer your smart *** questions in a moments notice.