51 F1 4x4 conversion "help"
Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,452
Likes: 2
From: Santa Fe Tx
Ok buddy you came to the RIGHT PLACE. the AOD tranny went from the 80's to the early 90's until the E4OD came out, I ran ALOT of TC's when I was wheeling the best one to get IMO is the Borge Warner 1356 they came in f250's and f150's and will bolt up to the same coupling and the NP 205, the BW1356 has a magneisum case and is chain drivin, I put mine through HELL. I did all kinds of thangs and never had a problem just rember cast iron cased TC's use gear oil, aluminum and magniesum cast TC's use ATF. Good luck
Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,452
Likes: 2
From: Santa Fe Tx
I almost forgot buddy have you tried looking at Divorced TC's they use a small drive shaft between it and the tranny then anouther to the rear end old Jeeps and Internationals were FAMOUS for them and they are pretty well builit proof but finding and left side shaft position for the front pumpkin, cause most of them are right side position.
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,293
Likes: 47
From: South central, Minnesota
Ok buddy you came to the RIGHT PLACE. the AOD tranny went from the 80's to the early 90's until the E4OD came out, I ran ALOT of TC's when I was wheeling the best one to get IMO is the Borge Warner 1356 they came in f250's and f150's and will bolt up to the same coupling and the NP 205, the BW1356 has a magneisum case and is chain drivin, I put mine through HELL. I did all kinds of thangs and never had a problem just rember cast iron cased TC's use gear oil, aluminum and magniesum cast TC's use ATF. Good luck
The problem is the 1356 is too wide. It's the same width as the NP208. And the 1356 had their own issues like oil pump issues and they are still a chain driven unit. The NP205 is a cast iron housing and all gear driven. No chains to wear out or fail.
Here's a pic of a NP205 I swapped into my old 84 F250 4x4 chassis. The transmission is a NP435 manual 4spd. You can see how much narrower the NP205 is. Look just to the left of the transfer case. You'll see the dip in the transmission cross member were the output from the BW1345 ( same basic size as the 1356 ) was.
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Freshman User
Joined: Feb 2012
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OK, I'll give it the "photdrop" try, Ted. (I think it was intended to be "photodrop" )
The Dana 20 looks like my "huckleberry"... just need a little more help here - can anybody get me the measurement from center to center of the main drive line to the front output? And if not asking too much, the inches of drop would be very helpful also.
I have tried every web search I can think of to find this dimension, to see if I will have enough clearance for the front drive shaft.
"thanks"
The Dana 20 looks like my "huckleberry"... just need a little more help here - can anybody get me the measurement from center to center of the main drive line to the front output? And if not asking too much, the inches of drop would be very helpful also.
I have tried every web search I can think of to find this dimension, to see if I will have enough clearance for the front drive shaft.
"thanks"
Cargo Master
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,452
Likes: 2
From: Santa Fe Tx
The problem is the 1356 is too wide. It's the same width as the NP208. And the 1356 had their own issues like oil pump issues and they are still a chain driven unit. The NP205 is a cast iron housing and all gear driven. No chains to wear out or fail.
Here's a pic of a NP205 I swapped into my old 84 F250 4x4 chassis. The transmission is a NP435 manual 4spd. You can see how much narrower the NP205 is. Look just to the left of the transfer case. You'll see the dip in the transmission cross member were the output from the BW1345 ( same basic size as the 1356 ) was.
Here's a pic of a NP205 I swapped into my old 84 F250 4x4 chassis. The transmission is a NP435 manual 4spd. You can see how much narrower the NP205 is. Look just to the left of the transfer case. You'll see the dip in the transmission cross member were the output from the BW1345 ( same basic size as the 1356 ) was.
Yes I do see the diffrence, to me I prefer the BW 1356 it may be alittle bigger but they are very simple and very easy to rebuild on the tailgate of your truck. I guess I am an odd ball LMFAO, but yes I do see your point with the size diffrence. Thank you for pointing that out I may be good but Im deffinatly not perfect.
ROCK ON BUDDY
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 581
Likes: 2
From: Somerset, Pa
I would have to dig out that dana 24 from under I pile of axles to get at ti to take measurements BUT it is pretty compact... slightly more so than a divorced np205 or np203.
You can find driver drop in all ford f-250 4x4's made from 59 up until mid year 1977.
You should be able to find one local for $0-$200...I wouldn't want to pay more than that for one, try to get the cross member out of the f-250 as well.. it would be an easy bolt in then since the frame with of the "highboy's" and early fords are just about the same.
You WILL have to make or get drive shafts made but going this root won't cost a lot of bread.
You could also find a 4x4 aod... then sell of the BW or np208 t-case and buy an np205 like was mentioned above.... you may be able to go this route too for not a lot of loot.
Did you narrow your axles before you put them in the truck or are you just going to let the tires stick out a bit?
You can find driver drop in all ford f-250 4x4's made from 59 up until mid year 1977.
You should be able to find one local for $0-$200...I wouldn't want to pay more than that for one, try to get the cross member out of the f-250 as well.. it would be an easy bolt in then since the frame with of the "highboy's" and early fords are just about the same.
You WILL have to make or get drive shafts made but going this root won't cost a lot of bread.
You could also find a 4x4 aod... then sell of the BW or np208 t-case and buy an np205 like was mentioned above.... you may be able to go this route too for not a lot of loot.
Did you narrow your axles before you put them in the truck or are you just going to let the tires stick out a bit?
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 581
Likes: 2
From: Somerset, Pa
Keep in mind that dana 20's can be pricey... us early bronco guys are stingy with our EB parts AND the adapter to use a dana 20 with a AOD is around 500-600 bucks.
Also note that there are 2 dana 20's the earlier "T shift" with a slightly deeper gear set and the ability to have 2wd LOW and the later "J shift".....again a good t-case but you would need to twin stick it to get 2wd LOW.
If I get a chance will measure a dana 20 for you tomorow....
here is a pic of one in my f-1 though back when I was building it.
Also note that there are 2 dana 20's the earlier "T shift" with a slightly deeper gear set and the ability to have 2wd LOW and the later "J shift".....again a good t-case but you would need to twin stick it to get 2wd LOW.
If I get a chance will measure a dana 20 for you tomorow....
here is a pic of one in my f-1 though back when I was building it.
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Freshman User
Joined: Feb 2012
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WOW jp, that pic tells one hell of a tale.... nice job!
So. that's a NP205 in your f1? I don't remember.. is it d"divorced" or married. That puppy sure has a lot of drop doesn't it.
I have not narrowed the front axle. The wheel face to face measurement on the stock f1 front end is 59". I was told that the '79 Bronco was also 59". I did not check this... yet... but now.... I will ... :-/ - I want the same width - so, more $$$ to narrow, I guess you can do it with axles from a different vehicle, so, that's more $$$ - and I am retired, so $$$ are spent "veeerryy carefully.
So. that's a NP205 in your f1? I don't remember.. is it d"divorced" or married. That puppy sure has a lot of drop doesn't it.
I have not narrowed the front axle. The wheel face to face measurement on the stock f1 front end is 59". I was told that the '79 Bronco was also 59". I did not check this... yet... but now.... I will ... :-/ - I want the same width - so, more $$$ to narrow, I guess you can do it with axles from a different vehicle, so, that's more $$$ - and I am retired, so $$$ are spent "veeerryy carefully.
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 581
Likes: 2
From: Somerset, Pa
That T-case is a married "T-shift" dana 20 out of an early bronco. I also used the early bronco 3 speed transmission.
Well you will probably find that the axle is too wide... don't worry though.. you can just cut the inner C off the long side, and shorten the tube to early bronco dimensions, weld the inner C back on and get an inner and outer shaft from an early bronco to use on that side. just make sure you weld the inner C back on with the same caster.
did you keep the stock f-1 suspension OR did you go with the bronco radius arm suspension.
For the rear is is best to use a 1957-1972 ford f-100 rear 9" axle it is the right width and just about a bolt in swap.
Well you will probably find that the axle is too wide... don't worry though.. you can just cut the inner C off the long side, and shorten the tube to early bronco dimensions, weld the inner C back on and get an inner and outer shaft from an early bronco to use on that side. just make sure you weld the inner C back on with the same caster.
did you keep the stock f-1 suspension OR did you go with the bronco radius arm suspension.
For the rear is is best to use a 1957-1972 ford f-100 rear 9" axle it is the right width and just about a bolt in swap.
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,293
Likes: 47
From: South central, Minnesota
No clue on photodrop never heard of it. I use Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket
And my pic is the NP205. jpb222's pic of his F1 is a Dana 20.
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Freshman User
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Yep, it looks like I will be shortening my axle - and "whew", thanks for the procedure explanation.. I was sort of sweatin' profusely there for a minute.. it does sound fairly simple, I will have to find a local shop that does that kind of stuff - I'm retired so $$$$$ are spent veeery carefully...
I kept the stock front suspension, and have installed a 9" w/3.50 gears and posi out of a '71 F150 - this ratio is a little too tall for the bone stock, 2 barrel carb converted mid 80's 302 w/AOD and 130K miles on it - probably getting 175 hp. This axle is about an inch wider than stock so it adds a great "stance" to this little truck - I have an extra 302 that I'm going to do a mild build on for maybe 225 hp after we get moved up to Montana.
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two restored 1979's a 350 4x4 and a low mile 150 2wd
three 66-77 EB's, one restoration, and 2 rock buggies
three 48-52 f-1 pickups, one sleeper, one 4x4 DD and one restoration pro
I kept the stock front suspension, and have installed a 9" w/3.50 gears and posi out of a '71 F150 - this ratio is a little too tall for the bone stock, 2 barrel carb converted mid 80's 302 w/AOD and 130K miles on it - probably getting 175 hp. This axle is about an inch wider than stock so it adds a great "stance" to this little truck - I have an extra 302 that I'm going to do a mild build on for maybe 225 hp after we get moved up to Montana.
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two restored 1979's a 350 4x4 and a low mile 150 2wd
three 66-77 EB's, one restoration, and 2 rock buggies
three 48-52 f-1 pickups, one sleeper, one 4x4 DD and one restoration pro
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Freshman User
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BTW, it looks to me like if I used the np205 (divorced) I could rotate it for the absolute minimal drop I need. Fabbing cross members might be a little difficult, but... I am attempting to keep the truck as low as I can.