Ceramic coating for pistons
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Senior User
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From: Louisville, KY
Ceramic coating for pistons
In my efforts to build the perfect 390, I am considering having the tops of my pistons as well as the base of my heads ceramic coated. I have both read and been told that this will greatly increase the efficiency of the motor by reducing the amount of heat and energy absorbed by the pistons and heads. Thus, the efficiency of the combustion chamber will create more power.
Does anyone have any experience with this? Will I be sacrificing the durability/ reliability of my motor? Will I have a problem with predetonation? Any known problems or problems generally associated with ceramic coatings? Thanks guys!
Does anyone have any experience with this? Will I be sacrificing the durability/ reliability of my motor? Will I have a problem with predetonation? Any known problems or problems generally associated with ceramic coatings? Thanks guys!
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From: Quaker Hill ,CT U.S.A.
Ceramic coating for pistons
Not a 390 , heck it isnt even a gasoline engine but check it out.
"PISTONS : When building an engine that is turbocharged you must lower the compression ratio when increasing the horsepower. The efficiency gained from increasing the manifold pressure will more than compensate for the compression ratio. Cummins also offers a high strength piston that we have ceramic coated on the top and Teflon coated on the skirts. The ceramic coating helps to keep the heat out of the piston and in the combustion chamber where it can further help to burn the fuel. The cooler we keep the piston the longer it will live. The Teflon coating on the piston skirt helps to remove the piston slap on the side of the liner. Teflon is the most slippery substance known to man and will allow your engine to more smoothly and quietly."
This is off of a Hipo cummins site , no not the little 5.9's but the 855's , the NTC cummins ( tractor trailor truck engines )
Again it is a diesel , I dont think it would help a regular gas engine unless it was turbo charged, that is my thoughts though
"PISTONS : When building an engine that is turbocharged you must lower the compression ratio when increasing the horsepower. The efficiency gained from increasing the manifold pressure will more than compensate for the compression ratio. Cummins also offers a high strength piston that we have ceramic coated on the top and Teflon coated on the skirts. The ceramic coating helps to keep the heat out of the piston and in the combustion chamber where it can further help to burn the fuel. The cooler we keep the piston the longer it will live. The Teflon coating on the piston skirt helps to remove the piston slap on the side of the liner. Teflon is the most slippery substance known to man and will allow your engine to more smoothly and quietly."
This is off of a Hipo cummins site , no not the little 5.9's but the 855's , the NTC cummins ( tractor trailor truck engines )
Again it is a diesel , I dont think it would help a regular gas engine unless it was turbo charged, that is my thoughts though
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Missouri
Ceramic coating for pistons
I have never known anyone to do this but I have read into it a little. Supposedly it allows you to run much higher compression on pump gas due to the lack of hot spots you will get with a ceramic surface vs. a metal flavored one. I bet it gets expensive but it may be worth it. I have heard of some guys using it on main and rod bearings and things of the sort. It has been around for a while but hasn't seem to catch on like I thought it would. There are supposedly no downsides to doing this with the exception of price of course.
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From: Quaker Hill ,CT U.S.A.
Ceramic coating for pistons
Sean ,Jared (FORD_six ) Actually called The shop that does the ceramic coating and they wanted about 300 bucks to do the coating AND the teflon for a set of Ford 300 I6 pistons for is twin turbo project . Not a bad price but I think 300 bucks could be better spent in a different area (especially on a naturaly asperated,gasoline engine)
http://www.dieselinjection.net/articles.html
Here is the link to the shop/info on the coatings/cummins engines .
It is really long but good reading if you are interested in diesel engines
http://www.dieselinjection.net/articles.html
Here is the link to the shop/info on the coatings/cummins engines .
It is really long but good reading if you are interested in diesel engines
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Senior User
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From: Louisville, KY
Ceramic coating for pistons
Let me ask you another question. The same shop with thermal coat the headers for 200 bucks, plus shipping. The advantages would be corrosion proofing and thermal insulating the headers. For 200 bucks, I can buy another sets of headers in 5 years. But, if the thermal coating will help with exhaust flow, then maybe it is worth considering. Anyone have any experience with this?
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,624
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From: Missouri
Ceramic coating for pistons
They actually coat the inside and outside. It makes the header look nice and last virtually forever. I think they call it powdercoating though. Not sure if the powder is ceramic or not.
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Posting Guru
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Ceramic coating for pistons
Originally posted by 67 428 Fairlane Ranchero
I beleive the coating is on the outside of the header, if so I cannot see a improvement on flow.
I beleive the coating is on the outside of the header, if so I cannot see a improvement on flow.
two advantages to speak of for the headers, the gas stays hot out the header so it flows faster and it doesn't let the heat out of the header which can keep the engine compartment significantly cooler, meaning you have cooler fuel, and cooler air going into your engine which is another power increase
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Senior User
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Louisville, KY
Ceramic coating for pistons
Powdercoating is different from the thermal coating they use on the headers. Powerdercoating will not stand up to the heat generated in the headers. But, I do not know the magic formula they use on headers.
Lead Driver
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From: Texas
Ceramic coating for pistons
Powder coating is basically a baked on paint. It's very good for physical contact durability but I don't know how well it handles high temperatures.
My headers are flame sprayed ceramic coating. These will take the heat, but are vulnerable to physical beatings.
The ceramic should work good if you have a good fit and don't have to mangle them to get them installed (as I did with my Dynomax).
I would consider any coating on the top of the piston a good opportunity for failure. My 2 cents. ceramic material in itself is extremely temperature tolerant, but the ceramic/metal interface combined with high temps, gas, high pressures and a lot of movement..I don't know, sounds like trouble.
My headers are flame sprayed ceramic coating. These will take the heat, but are vulnerable to physical beatings.
The ceramic should work good if you have a good fit and don't have to mangle them to get them installed (as I did with my Dynomax).
I would consider any coating on the top of the piston a good opportunity for failure. My 2 cents. ceramic material in itself is extremely temperature tolerant, but the ceramic/metal interface combined with high temps, gas, high pressures and a lot of movement..I don't know, sounds like trouble.
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From: Quaker Hill ,CT U.S.A.
Ceramic coating for pistons
Gtex read the artical I posted if it works on 900 Horsepower 2400Lbs Feet torque DIESEL engines then it will work on a regular gasoiline engine, interesting stuff
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Texas
Ceramic coating for pistons
I'm sure it can be done.
I work in a place where we often use ceramic coated metals for high energy processing. These coating processes are very controlled and very expensive. If they vary slightly, we get problems.
I don't see many engine facilities having the control necessary to make this work consistently. I have a hard time seeing it work for $300 investment as well.
Of course, I've been wrong before.
These are just the gut reactions of a Project/Process/Manufacturing Engineer.
I work in a place where we often use ceramic coated metals for high energy processing. These coating processes are very controlled and very expensive. If they vary slightly, we get problems.
I don't see many engine facilities having the control necessary to make this work consistently. I have a hard time seeing it work for $300 investment as well.
Of course, I've been wrong before.
These are just the gut reactions of a Project/Process/Manufacturing Engineer.
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