Ceramic performance coatings; limits to use?
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Lead Driver
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Ceramic performance coatings; limits to use?
Hey all,
I know some of you use ceramic coatings here, and we've discussed it a few times also.
How come these coatings are not used more often?
I mean, why stop at the exhaust manifolds? Why not do piston crowns, the heads (where you can), faces of exhaust valves, back of the exhaust valves, the exhaust channel from the valve to the manifold?
If a person did this, would you not have an engine that is much less affected by EGT's, and less stressed from heat soaked parts?
I know some of you use ceramic coatings here, and we've discussed it a few times also.
How come these coatings are not used more often?
I mean, why stop at the exhaust manifolds? Why not do piston crowns, the heads (where you can), faces of exhaust valves, back of the exhaust valves, the exhaust channel from the valve to the manifold?
If a person did this, would you not have an engine that is much less affected by EGT's, and less stressed from heat soaked parts?
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Lead Driver
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Cool, I found something-
Fireball Performance Coatings - Ceramic Coatings
They are good for piston crowns-
Has anyone here ever tried a few layers of ceramic coating on a diesel? It should eliminate almost all EGT problems!!
Youre piston crowns would be red smokin hot from the top, yet nice and manageable from the bottom. The exhaust valves could have their faces and backs coated too! A guy could almost forget about EGT damage afterwards!
This could really be good for the newer engines with DPF's on them too, less regen hopefully?
Apparently this is supposed to hike mileage as well.....
Fireball Performance Coatings - Ceramic Coatings
They are good for piston crowns-
Has anyone here ever tried a few layers of ceramic coating on a diesel? It should eliminate almost all EGT problems!!
Youre piston crowns would be red smokin hot from the top, yet nice and manageable from the bottom. The exhaust valves could have their faces and backs coated too! A guy could almost forget about EGT damage afterwards!
This could really be good for the newer engines with DPF's on them too, less regen hopefully?
Apparently this is supposed to hike mileage as well.....
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Lead Driver
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Pistons Ceramic/Teflon coating - Pittsburgh Power - Pittsburgh Power
# The ceramic coating on our treated pistons help protect the piston crown from heat and reflects heat to improve combustion
# Teflon skirts reduce internal friction and piston slap
# This treatment can increase horsepower by 15 HP
# Your engine will have a longer service life and run quieter
This stuff really seems to be the cats meow - how come it is not more popular? More mileage, more power; Not to often you get so much for so little.....
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From: South Eastern MN
I do not have a reference for this, but at one point I was told, if I remember correctly, that ceramic coatings on piston tops tend to wear off after a while. I don't believe I've ever heard anything since then about the subject.
The reasoning for use on race vehicles is that gains of every kind are desired and that the engine is apart often enough as to re-coat often enough to avoid operation without protection.
That's what I remember anyway.
The reasoning for use on race vehicles is that gains of every kind are desired and that the engine is apart often enough as to re-coat often enough to avoid operation without protection.
That's what I remember anyway.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: NW Arkansas
Hey all,
I know some of you use ceramic coatings here, and we've discussed it a few times also.
How come these coatings are not used more often?
I mean, why stop at the exhaust manifolds? Why not do piston crowns, the heads (where you can), faces of exhaust valves, back of the exhaust valves, the exhaust channel from the valve to the manifold?
If a person did this, would you not have an engine that is much less affected by EGT's, and less stressed from heat soaked parts?
I know some of you use ceramic coatings here, and we've discussed it a few times also.
How come these coatings are not used more often?
I mean, why stop at the exhaust manifolds? Why not do piston crowns, the heads (where you can), faces of exhaust valves, back of the exhaust valves, the exhaust channel from the valve to the manifold?
If a person did this, would you not have an engine that is much less affected by EGT's, and less stressed from heat soaked parts?
But you have to consider how many of us have our engines apart??
I have never done anything other than bolt on parts.. swap turbos etc.. Who on this forum does a in depth build? I think there are a few other forums where there are some very detailed and in-depth engine builds and a wealth of information to go along with it how and why these things are being done.
I don't think ceramic coating any part of your head will do much.. the heads are a very good design and don't need any port or polish.
I just found a guy that spun a bearing and wants $150 for the engine - HPOP, injectors and turbo.. so I will prob end up rebuilding the engine if I can and then I will prob look into coating parts of the engine.
Edit: I have my uppipes and exhaust housing ceramic coated and I certainly can tell the difference in spool up. I can also control my boost and EGT levels better on long hills when towing..
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Lead Driver
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I do not have a reference for this, but at one point I was told, if I remember correctly, that ceramic coatings on piston tops tend to wear off after a while. I don't believe I've ever heard anything since then about the subject.
The reasoning for use on race vehicles is that gains of every kind are desired and that the engine is apart often enough as to re-coat often enough to avoid operation without protection.
That's what I remember anyway.
The reasoning for use on race vehicles is that gains of every kind are desired and that the engine is apart often enough as to re-coat often enough to avoid operation without protection.
That's what I remember anyway.
This does not sound like it's worn off... I could see if the skirt teflon coating would wear off, but the ceramic coating I'm thinking is pretty much "there for good", once its on. Someone said on a different thread :"It almost becomes part of the metal itself".
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From: NW Arkansas
Looking and reading on the link above, they're talking about rebuilding an engine at 300,000 miles and slapping the pistons back in because they are still in perfect condition.
This does not sound like it's worn off... I could see if the skirt teflon coating would wear off, but the ceramic coating I'm thinking is pretty much "there for good", once its on. Someone said on a different thread :"It almost becomes part of the metal itself".
This does not sound like it's worn off... I could see if the skirt teflon coating would wear off, but the ceramic coating I'm thinking is pretty much "there for good", once its on. Someone said on a different thread :"It almost becomes part of the metal itself".
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Lead Driver
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But you have to consider how many of us have our engines apart??
Good point...not everyone is gonna tear down just to coat stuff....
I have never done anything other than bolt on parts.. swap turbos etc.. Who on this forum does a in depth build? I think there are a few other forums where there are some very detailed and in-depth engine builds and a wealth of information to go along with it how and why these things are being done.
I don't think ceramic coating any part of your head will do much.. the heads are a very good design and don't need any port or polish.
I was thinking to keep the high temps from getting into the metal as much. Keep the heat out of the block, and in the combustion and exhaust.....
I just found a guy that spun a bearing and wants $150 for the engine - HPOP, injectors and turbo.. so I will prob end up rebuilding the engine if I can and then I will prob look into coating parts of the engine.
Edit: I have my uppipes and exhaust housing ceramic coated and I certainly can tell the difference in spool up. I can also control my boost and EGT levels better on long hills when towing..
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Posting Guru
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From: NW Arkansas
15% increase in HP on a 500HP Detroit Diesel will net 75HP at 1800rpm.
15% increase on a 7.3 will be roughly 35HP at 2300rpm
Still could be a worthwhile thing to do to an engine.
I think the teflon coating is where you are freeing up HP by reducing friction.
I wonder what the cost/hp is ceramic coating a piston vs. machining the top of the piston to reduce hot spots.
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From: NW Arkansas
Ok.. I read the site.. I was right.. here is what is posted..
A 14 and 15-liter diesel engine loses about 75 horsepower due to internal friction. With these pistons, you recover about 15 of those horsepower. The cost paid to coat the pistons is the best money you can spend during a rebuild. By the way, ceramic and Teflon coated pistons also help eliminate piston slap because the Teflon on the piston skirts is soft and eliminates about .001 thousandths piston-to-wall clearance. Teflon is the slipperiest material known to man. With a film of oil on the Teflon we now have a very smooth riding piston in the liner. The Teflon on the sides greatly reduces piston slap against the liner. Less slap = less noise, less cavitation (or liner pitting) and means longer cylinder liner life.
So the ceramic coating keeps heat in but the teflon is the hp gain.. not ceramic coating.. although if you are already getting teflon side skirts you might as well get ceramic coated tops...
And it's not 15%.. it's 15hp. haha
A 14 and 15-liter diesel engine loses about 75 horsepower due to internal friction. With these pistons, you recover about 15 of those horsepower. The cost paid to coat the pistons is the best money you can spend during a rebuild. By the way, ceramic and Teflon coated pistons also help eliminate piston slap because the Teflon on the piston skirts is soft and eliminates about .001 thousandths piston-to-wall clearance. Teflon is the slipperiest material known to man. With a film of oil on the Teflon we now have a very smooth riding piston in the liner. The Teflon on the sides greatly reduces piston slap against the liner. Less slap = less noise, less cavitation (or liner pitting) and means longer cylinder liner life.
So the ceramic coating keeps heat in but the teflon is the hp gain.. not ceramic coating.. although if you are already getting teflon side skirts you might as well get ceramic coated tops...
And it's not 15%.. it's 15hp. haha
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I recommend Swain Tech Coatings. Haven't ever come across someone who has ever had a problem with them. I have came across people who have "burned-off" jet-hot coating's "polished" silver off manifolds.
Swain Tech Coatings for engine piston coatings, race engine coatings, ceramic header coating, carbide metal coatings, thermal spray plasma coating, metalizing closures, spray welding
Swain Tech Coatings for engine piston coatings, race engine coatings, ceramic header coating, carbide metal coatings, thermal spray plasma coating, metalizing closures, spray welding
Posting Guru
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From: NW Arkansas
I recommend Swain Tech Coatings. Haven't ever come across someone who has ever had a problem with them. I have came across people who have "burned-off" jet-hot coating's "polished" silver off manifolds.
Swain Tech Coatings for engine piston coatings, race engine coatings, ceramic header coating, carbide metal coatings, thermal spray plasma coating, metalizing closures, spray welding
Swain Tech Coatings for engine piston coatings, race engine coatings, ceramic header coating, carbide metal coatings, thermal spray plasma coating, metalizing closures, spray welding