Not to put words in your mouth, but I get the feeling that it might be "Lube Gard" that those Techs are putting in there. I can't and won't vouch for the stuff myself, but I know that it's a much more respected product in the auto industry than is Duralube.

http://www.lubegard.com/automotive/engine_biotech.html

 

In regards to Rustys comments. Most PAO basestocked oils are made with polar PAOs. This means that it has an extremely strong film strength that polarizes itself to metal parts. So strong, in fact, that the additive package can't get in to do its job and wear is accelerated. Some oil companies blend alkylated napthalenes in to cut the film strength so we are back to a HO-HUM film strength.Then there is the issue of the basestock mixing and supporting the additive package. The term is "miscible" and is a property of any lube capable of being mixed in any concentration without separation of the phases.PAOs and Gp III do not support the add packs and do a poor job of mixing with it. Kinda like water and oil. But we can use a binder to make them get along and mix together. In the case of Gp III and PAOs, we generally use a Gp I or a Gp II basestock in sufficient amounts to blend the basestocks and add packs together without fear of stratification. Clear as mud?

Duralube is a clorinated napthenic. It is highly corrosive and I doubt that it is the product your folks are putting in the engines. Durablend has suffered at the hand of Uncle Sammy for false claims and advertizing. They are more likely to be using Synpower made by Valvoline to replenish the add pack.

 

Very interesting Flash, I knew there was more to it. Thanks.

So is there a way to have both high film strength, and good additive pack retension? How do esters (group 5) do?

 

Flash, does the term 'clorinated hydrocarbons' or 'clorinated napthenic' mean it contains Trichlorethylene or is that a catch all phrase for a certain type of fluid, including Trichlorethylene as well?

We used to use Trichlorethylene (I believe it was Trichlorethylene 1,1,1) to "cloride" the catalyst in the rheneformer reactor's at the gasoline refinery. We would do this occasionaly while operating to maintain the effectiveness of the catalyst and prevent from having to keep raising furnace temps to meet octane spec. We would 'shot pot' it into the process.

The guy who ran the tool crib and washed everyone's Nomex coverall's discovered that Trichlorethylene did a dandy job of removing residium oil from dirty coverall's when added to the laundry. When the safety guy heard about this, he turned white. That was just before he got all red and angry at the poor 'ol tool crib guy. I'm sure glad I was taking my coverall's home to get washed! That is some real nasty stuff...

 

I was wrong, the oil additive those techs use is called "Lubrakleen", by Hydrotex, who also supplies the engine oil, transmission fluid, and the fuel additive, "EssentialLube".

 

Horsepuller, Trichlorethylene is indeed nasty. It is known to cause hearing lose and liver cancer. I highly doubt that it is the chemical you are using as it is fairly well regulated. You are most likely using a very similiar chemical that is far safer to use but does have some bad characteristics. It is Trichlorethane 1,1,1. The following will give you more details and an MSDS if you like.
http://www.accepta.com/prod_docs/3548.pdf

Hope this helps. And if I was the boss and your guy washed the clothes in trichlorethylene, the real stuff, I'm not sure he would survive the day.

 

Flash, thanks for the link to Trichlorethane 1,1,1. The incident I related happened back in 1980. So I'm not sure if it was the replacement or the real deal. At the time we were still blending gasoline with DuPont Tetraethyl Lead!

 

It may not be true, but from reading this thread I get the impression that most of you are relatively young. I'm 55 and I can tell you about poor additive packages.

In the fifties and sixties it was all too common to pull apart an engine that was just packed with goo. This goo was the consistency of gun grease with the adhesion qualities of contact cement.

The brands that gave this effect were commonly Havoline and Amalie. I can't remember the last time I saw Amalie. I expect that these oils had pretty strong base stock, but the additives were crap. Part of the problem was the fact that engines in those days had road breathers, rather than positive crankcase ventilation. They also ran cooler in those days for a variety of reasons. All this led to nasty crankcases.

Today, even the worst of oils have a MUCH better additive package than what was in the best of oils then.

You wouldn't have to tear apart very many of these gooey, nasty engines to have a strong desire to ensure that your own engine didn't end up like that.

Most premium oils have decent base stock without having to go synthetic. I have experience running engines to high mileage. For me these days I am disappointed if an engine starts clapping out at a quarter of a million miles. My best has been a Mercedes 240D diesel that went 533,000 miles. From this you can probably tell that I'm not afraid to change oil and do it often.

For me, I would much rather spend my money on a premium dino oil that has a good additive package and change it twice or three times as often as spending roughly the same amount of money per mile on synthetic.

Synthetic oils are a great product and for small, highly stressed engines they are almost mandatory, even thought so by some of the Euro manufacturers who use Premium synthetic for the factory fill. But, for the big ol' American engines, give me premium dino and oil filters and let me change it more often.

My $0.02,
Doc
ASE Master

 

Redline (ester), Motul 300V(ester & diester) and Silkolene (diester) use polar esters
For an explanation try silkolene web site

M1 may use AN which is less polar and PAO but states that 3 Synthetis are used so still possible that an ester is included in blend. Is there a problem with AW with using these oils?

Are the add packs not ester based now rather than I or II and Boron additive is an ester.

 

Hi Doc,
Being fairly new to the group and not exactly a spring chicken myself, I can remember the Havoline gunk and also the bad batch from Quakerstate that ruined so many engines. I could not understand why people were still using and recomending these oils. Thirty years is a long time though.
Regards,
GeoW