Which is most important to you when choosing your motor oil? In basestocks we have PAO synthetics, Group III synthetics, synthetic blends, and propiertary basetocks. There are dino base stocks of Group I, Group II, and Group II+ or you could consider Group III's a dino. Or, do you look at the additve packages? There are zinc, boron, esters, moly, calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, and propietary additives. So, which is most important to you in selecting the oil for your engine?

 

I think Moly is a good additive to have, it is proven to reduce friction and does plate on the metal. I believe Castrol has one of the best VII packages (Visocisty index improvers) good for high temp as well as high shear. In my climate Zone 6 I figure a groupe 3 base oil is probably all around best. I also think the oil with the lowest amount of VII additives is best because that stuff is basically a rubber, so if temps allow I would run a 10w-30 before I ran a 5w-30. I think castrol is probably the best oil for the money because of the above mentioned. But I have not been able to determine the base stock used for GTX. If anyone knows let me know. Thanks

 

Flash,

I have to admit that I don't know much more about base oils than what I've read in this forum and also what I've read here. So my opinion on this matter is by no means fully formulated, and certainly not fully informed. But based on what I do know, I would think that anyone who chooses to use a fully synthetic motor oil instead of dino has already, by definition, made that decision based on the basestock of the oil, and not based on the additive. Do you agree with that?

 

For me, it's going to be an oil that will give me good performance and a long, reasonable service interval. Cost plays a role as well, a high cost synthetic isn't necessarily the best value, if a well additized petroleum basestock performs just as well for far less of an investment.
Most consumers are in the dark as far as I'm concerned, and rely soley upon marketing hype from the oil manufacturer's to make their decisions.

Synthetic lube oils are nothing new. The German war machine was using them 60+ years ago. Today they are marketed as the new, advanced, wave of the future, in automotive lubrication. And consumers are paying premium prices for it. For some, it's even their religion.

 

When I'm choosing oil I'll go with the top base stocks, then I look for the best additive package. Sometimes I think more additves are being used to compensate for a lower grade base stock, that's my opinion.

 

Definitely base stock, then a good addative package added. I figure its best to start out with a great product. This is where Chevron takes the prize, their 5w30 dino is a group II+.

 

Guess I'll have to say base-stock too. Although a good additive package enhances wear protection and dispersancy. I think the overall lubricity and useful longevity of an oil is better when you start out with a higher quality fluid.

I've never been a PAO synthetic user, so I'm not dismayed at the change of formulation by some mfgr's. I kind of look at all hydrocarbon product's as 'dino'. I've often wondered why the PAO enthusiasts refer to it as 'oil' instead of lubricant. Oil comes from crude oil and natural gas. PAO doesn't come from tree bark or bumble bee wings, now does it?

 

I'm gonna jump on the base-stock bandwagon. I think that most all additive packages are sufficient at their worst. Sure there are some big differences but it seems they all get the job done. Some might be better than others depending on the specifics of the engine, but on average, they all seem to do fine.
It seems logical that the best additive package in the world can't compensate for inferior base stock.
These days (and I stress THESE DAYS) there's no reason to use anything less than a Group II at the worst. With the Group III's available at "regular" oil prices, it is one of those RARE consumer moments when we appear to be getting more than what we are paying for!

Good question by the way!

 

Base-stock kinda' puts the horse in FRONT of the cart where it belongs ... doesn't it?

 

Since nobody has gone (yet) with additives, I decided to spend a little time trying to learn more about what additives are and what they do. I ran across a decent summary by a guy named Ed Kovalchick. Here is an excerpt:

".....Oil Additive Packaging

A variety of additives, of varying quality, are included in oil packaging to produce the final product. These are as important for maximum performance as the base oil itself, and the quality and quantity of these additives ultimately affect the final performance tabulations. Additives include:

Pour Point Depressants – necessary to improve low temperature flow characteristics. Oil tests show that various brands have extremely different abilities to flow at cold temperatures. The most common oils in new products, 5w – 20, show Pennzoil flowing to -49 degrees, Chevron Supreme -45 degrees, while Quaker State registered only -27 degrees. This additive is necessary because of the natural wax contamination in basestock oil.

Viscosity Index Improvers – this additive is made up of polymers that expand and contract with temperature change. At high temperatures, basestock oil tends to lose its viscosity capacity, and it thins out, decreasing engine protection in high pressure areas. These polymers expand in high temperatures adding viscosity protection back into the basestock. Again Pennzoil has the highest rating in the 5w – 20 bracket, along with Phillips 76 Super right behind, and Quaker State (owned by Pennzoil) comes in last, although the entire bracket scored closely.

Other Important Oil Additives

Detergents and Dispersants – these additives work together to ensure varnish and sludge do not unite to form deposits. The very best oils use ashless dispersants, rather than the more common metallic.

Anti-Foaming Agents – used to control foaming, mandatory with hydraulic valves used the vast majority of engines today. Foaming also creates pockets of minimal lubrication qualities.

Oxidation Inhibitors – this additive reduces oil’s tendency to chemically react with oxygen, which creates bearing corrosion. Inhibiting oxidation helps protect against this malady.

Corrosion Inhibitors – these both neutralize acids, while sometimes being able to coat metals for extra protection.

Anti-wear Agents – zinc and phosphorus additives are used to coat metal surfaces to form a protective barrier in high pressure wear areas. Newer 5W - 20 oils have special packaging of these potent chemicals because they can negatively affect the quality of exhaust emissions, and potentially the converter. This is one reason it is important to use the viscosities outlined in the owner’s manual for the year of the vehicle....."

 

I'll have to go against the majority here and say additives. Just look at the summary that rockledge posted above.

If you took the most expensive PAO or ester base oil, without additives, how long would your engine last compared to running the least expenive API SL oil you could find?

Without anti-foam agents, a PSD would not run at all.

Jim

 

Yeah but try pouring a crankcase full of additives in w/o a base - ANY base - how far would one get that way?

Obviously we need a "balanced" pkg. - but again, the horse pulls (is in FRONT of) the cart - if I've got a horse (base), I can ride and get another cart - the alternative is I'M dragging the cart (?).

I could be off here - I thought I was wrong once before - but I was mistaken - heehee

 

One interesting note is that most of the oils we can buy as consmers have essientially the same additive package. Exxon, Chevron and Shell have a global joint venture that deals with additives, detegents, VII etc. I belive that different companies may buy better grades of the additives but in general they are all most likley identical. Those guys make some serious money on motor oil even at a buck a quart!

 

True, but almost by the same token, I wouldn't want to run a base oil in my truck without any additives in there. I bet I wouldn't get too far that way, either.

I think people can see from what I posted in another thread entitled Chevron Delo Oil Report , that I am starting to think more and more that additives are just as critiical as base stock to engine oil performance. But I am reserving final judgment on that issue until I get more facts.

 

Rockledge, you're smarter than you think. I hope to tie this thread with a new one with numbers later in the week. Then it should make more sense to everyone what is most critical in the oils we choose. But as an insight, there is no one oil for everybodies needs. Different driving habits, different engines, used for different reasons.