2005 F350 Temperature Fluxuations
#1
08-23-2011, 05:54 PM
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Warrenton VA
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2005 F350 Temperature Fluxuations
I figured I'd start a new thread since the last was just about my Degas bottle.
I drove my truck home from the dealer (about 12 miles), and discovered that if I keep it under about 10 psi of boost, I can drive it without overheating the engine. I made it home, but the temp gauge was all over the place.
When I got home, I opened the hood and discovered the coolant in my Degas bottle was boiling. Actually, it was pretty bad. I was concerned it might pop.
Long story short, the dealer wanted $3000 to fix the oil cooler, egr cooler, and degas bottle. And there was no promise that doing so would fix my overheating issues. In fact, he said it was likely to need head gaskets after the work was done, and doing those would be an additonal $5200. $8200 total. On top of the $20k I just paid for the truck a little over a month ago.
After research here, and with the conditions I experienced on my way home, I believe the reason my degas bottle is warped is due to the heads lifting off the block, and venting hot gas and water into the cooling system, which ends up in the bottle, and registers as if the engine were overheating.
It sounds like I need new head gaskets and ARP head bolts to prevent this. Is there a good write up on doing a head gasket replacement? Does it require any special tools or timing adjustments? Anyone with experience doing one of these interested in earning some weekend cash?
I've got an OEM service manual on the way, and a the EGR delete and Oil Cooler. I've not yet purchased the head gaskets and ARP bolts, but will if the forum thinks the remedy fits the problem described.
Thanks!
I drove my truck home from the dealer (about 12 miles), and discovered that if I keep it under about 10 psi of boost, I can drive it without overheating the engine. I made it home, but the temp gauge was all over the place.
When I got home, I opened the hood and discovered the coolant in my Degas bottle was boiling. Actually, it was pretty bad. I was concerned it might pop.
Long story short, the dealer wanted $3000 to fix the oil cooler, egr cooler, and degas bottle. And there was no promise that doing so would fix my overheating issues. In fact, he said it was likely to need head gaskets after the work was done, and doing those would be an additonal $5200. $8200 total. On top of the $20k I just paid for the truck a little over a month ago.
After research here, and with the conditions I experienced on my way home, I believe the reason my degas bottle is warped is due to the heads lifting off the block, and venting hot gas and water into the cooling system, which ends up in the bottle, and registers as if the engine were overheating.
It sounds like I need new head gaskets and ARP head bolts to prevent this. Is there a good write up on doing a head gasket replacement? Does it require any special tools or timing adjustments? Anyone with experience doing one of these interested in earning some weekend cash?
I've got an OEM service manual on the way, and a the EGR delete and Oil Cooler. I've not yet purchased the head gaskets and ARP bolts, but will if the forum thinks the remedy fits the problem described.
Thanks!
#2
08-23-2011, 06:05 PM
#4
08-23-2011, 06:25 PM
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I've got a ScanGuage 2 coming in the mail, but other than that I have no mods (at least none I'm aware of). The truck is brand new to me.
I watch the gauges like a hawk, and I can say that the engine oil temp remains in the middle of the gauge, while the water temp will shoot up close to the red mark, then drop down to the middle of the gauge. This will continue depending on how much boost I give it. If I keep it low, I can keep the temps out of the red. As soon as I push it up a hill (15-20 psi), I can see that gauge instantly head toward the red.
I watch the gauges like a hawk, and I can say that the engine oil temp remains in the middle of the gauge, while the water temp will shoot up close to the red mark, then drop down to the middle of the gauge. This will continue depending on how much boost I give it. If I keep it low, I can keep the temps out of the red. As soon as I push it up a hill (15-20 psi), I can see that gauge instantly head toward the red.
#6
08-23-2011, 06:52 PM
Basically you will follow the service manual for the build but use the guidelines with the head studs because of the lube that will be with the kit. You will need to borrow one BIG torque wrench, best to throw the engine on the floor but do as you please. Ford does have an upper kit that would have all the gaskets and o-rings you need...sorry I have no part numbers for you but your friendly dealer can help you out.
GET new bolts for the up pipes and keep a spare set around. The down pipe is a bugger at times. Quick Tip 1, loosen the clamp, crawl under truck, kick the ever living you know what out of it and the down pipe will snap loose from the turbo.
Check the block for flat, send the heads to a machine shop that can handle them, no more than .008 off the surface or they are junk.
GET new bolts for the up pipes and keep a spare set around. The down pipe is a bugger at times. Quick Tip 1, loosen the clamp, crawl under truck, kick the ever living you know what out of it and the down pipe will snap loose from the turbo.
Check the block for flat, send the heads to a machine shop that can handle them, no more than .008 off the surface or they are junk.
#7
08-24-2011, 09:38 AM
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How big a torque wrench will I need. I believe mine does 180 ft/lbs. Maybe more, but I'm sure I've pulled 180 with it before.
Basically you will follow the service manual for the build but use the guidelines with the head studs because of the lube that will be with the kit. You will need to borrow one BIG torque wrench, best to throw the engine on the floor but do as you please. Ford does have an upper kit that would have all the gaskets and o-rings you need...sorry I have no part numbers for you but your friendly dealer can help you out.
GET new bolts for the up pipes and keep a spare set around. The down pipe is a bugger at times. Quick Tip 1, loosen the clamp, crawl under truck, kick the ever living you know what out of it and the down pipe will snap loose from the turbo.
Check the block for flat, send the heads to a machine shop that can handle them, no more than .008 off the surface or they are junk.
GET new bolts for the up pipes and keep a spare set around. The down pipe is a bugger at times. Quick Tip 1, loosen the clamp, crawl under truck, kick the ever living you know what out of it and the down pipe will snap loose from the turbo.
Check the block for flat, send the heads to a machine shop that can handle them, no more than .008 off the surface or they are junk.
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#9
08-24-2011, 06:47 PM
you need a tourque wrench that goes to 250ft/lbs
I jjuust got one when I changed balljoints
they might rent oneIDK
If you do it with cab on which you Will in your driveway you will need to search how to remove the a/c&heater box in passenger side moter compartment
just the cover dont undo the A/C lines it got alot of bolts to remove somewhere theres a diagram of the exact bolts to take out but I dont think its that bad you need the clearence to lift that head out
get to know the 6.0 Bible
6.0L Bible Table of Contents
I jjuust got one when I changed balljoints
they might rent oneIDK
If you do it with cab on which you Will in your driveway you will need to search how to remove the a/c&heater box in passenger side moter compartment
just the cover dont undo the A/C lines it got alot of bolts to remove somewhere theres a diagram of the exact bolts to take out but I dont think its that bad you need the clearence to lift that head out
get to know the 6.0 Bible
6.0L Bible Table of Contents
#10
08-24-2011, 06:52 PM
did the scangauge come yet????
heres a good thread to go thru to set up the gauges you want when it comes its got all the codes
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...injectors.html
if you get it and a gauge dont seam right just ask they have been getting updated alot
but that thread a great place to start
might be worth a compression check at each cylinder to your symtoms dont sound good
heres a good thread to go thru to set up the gauges you want when it comes its got all the codes
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...injectors.html
if you get it and a gauge dont seam right just ask they have been getting updated alot
but that thread a great place to start
might be worth a compression check at each cylinder to your symtoms dont sound good
#11
08-25-2011, 09:36 AM
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The ScanGauge has not yet arrived, but it may arrive today.
Is it easier to pull the cab to do this job? That sounds like a lot of work, but if it's easier than trying to work over the engine, I'd rather do that. I have a 9000 lb lift, but lifting the whole truck with it could be a problem, since I don't think it'll fit in my garage. Getting the cab off it though sounds like it might be possible.
Thanks for the references... I'll check those out!
Is it easier to pull the cab to do this job? That sounds like a lot of work, but if it's easier than trying to work over the engine, I'd rather do that. I have a 9000 lb lift, but lifting the whole truck with it could be a problem, since I don't think it'll fit in my garage. Getting the cab off it though sounds like it might be possible.
Thanks for the references... I'll check those out!
did the scangauge come yet????
heres a good thread to go thru to set up the gauges you want when it comes its got all the codes
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...injectors.html
if you get it and a gauge dont seam right just ask they have been getting updated alot
but that thread a great place to start
might be worth a compression check at each cylinder to your symtoms dont sound good
heres a good thread to go thru to set up the gauges you want when it comes its got all the codes
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...injectors.html
if you get it and a gauge dont seam right just ask they have been getting updated alot
but that thread a great place to start
might be worth a compression check at each cylinder to your symtoms dont sound good
#12
08-25-2011, 04:10 PM
Pulling the cab is a personal preference. IMHO it's easier to do that way IF you have the capability. Here's a good reference:
When you pull a cab you shouldnt be disconnecting any brake lines or hoses off of anything. Unbolt the entire ABS module from the cab and lay it on the engine.
-Begin by positioning the vehicle onto the hoist where it can be lifted. Roll the vehicle straight backwards just until you can open all four doors without hitting the posts of the hoist. Remove the rear seat (18mm nuts and TX-50 bolts I think). Remove all four door opening scuff plates by simply prying on them gently. Once the rear seat is removed, lift up on the carpet to expose the rear cab mount bolts. You will need a 24mm or 15/16" socket for the bolt on the driver side, and a 21mm or 13/16" socket for the bolt on the passenger side. Once removed, lift up on the carpet until access can be gained to the middle row bolts, just behind the front seats. You will see a rubber grommet plug to remove before you have access to the bolts. Again driver side bolt is 24mm or 15/16" and passenger side is 21mm or 13/16". Remove both the driver and passenger side kick panels. Remove the 10mm bolt securing the steering coupler to the steering column, and once removed, telescope the lower shaft all the way through the firewall. Roll up the carpet on both driver and passenger sides to expose the grommets covering the front cab mount bolts. Again driver side bolt is 24mm or 15/16" and passenger side is 21mm or 13/16". Once removed, this concludes everything needed to remove from inside the vehicle. Roll the vehicle forward to position it onto the lift.
-Raise the vehicle in the air to disconnect everything needed underneath. Begin by draining the cooling system (don't forget to remove the coolant degas bottle cap first). Loosen the plastic 19mm or 3/4" radiator drain petcock. Disconnect both front ABS wheel speed sensors at the rearward sides of both front inner fenderwells. Disconnect the ground strap located underneath the vehicle, just behind the passenger side inner fender well (8mm bolt). Disconnect the parking brake cable at the junction just under the driver side framerail. Once done, fish the front cable through the body mount bracket and leave hanging. Disconnect the shifter cable at the transmission manual lever, and the cable mounting bracket and leave hanging. Disconnect the lower rad hose from the radiator. Disconnect the two transmission fluid cooler lines at the radiator (you will need to remove the safety lock plastic clips first, and you'll need the special spring lock coupler tool to disconnect the lines). Remove the two 8mm bolts that secure the power steering fluid cooler to the lower rad support facing the front of the vehicle, and leave the cooler hanging. Disconnect the transmission fluid cooler lines from the external fluid filter housing on the passenger side of the vehicle. Remove all plastic pushpins that secure the rubber air deflector to the lower rad support.
-Evacuate the A/C. Remove all the plastic pushpins at the upper rad support, and disconnect the main battery positive cable retaining push clips as well. Working on the passenger side of the vehicle in the engine compartment, disconnect the A/C line at the suction accumulator (one 13mm nut). Remove the one 8mm bolt securing the engine ground strap to the firewall, just behind the MAP sensor. Disconnect the vacuum line for your pulse vacuum hubs. Remove the passenger side battery. Disconnect the main wiring connected to passenger side battery positive cable. Disconnect the ground strap that's connected to the negative battery cable on the passenger side of the vehicle you now have access to, with the battery removed. Disconnect the "squeeze and pull" type connection by the vacuum (yellow with light blue stripe coloured wire). Disconnect the MAP sensor hose from the intake manifold, and move out of the way. Disconnect the heater hose at the passenger side, just below the alternator, where it connects to the metal tube going into the front cover. Disconnect the upper of the two A/C lines at the top of the A/C condensor (one 13mm nut). Remove both hot and cold side charge air cooler tubes (11mm or 7/16" to loosen the clamps). Disconnect the upper rad hose. Remove the two upper rad support brackets (four 8mm bolts in total). Remove the two 8mm bolts that secure the fan shroud to the rad and remove the shroud. Remove the coolant degas bottle (two 8mm bolts). Remove the entire air cleaner assembly (don't forget to remove the airflow restrictor gauge and disconnect the MAF sensor first). Disconnect the main central junction box feed to the driver side battery positive cable. Remove the driver side battery. Remove the battery tray (four 13mm bolts). Disconnect two of the three PCM main connectors (it will be pretty obvious which two). Disconnect the hose at the bottom of the power steering fluid reservoir (make sure you have a drain bucket below before doing this because it will be messy). Disconnect all lines (two I think both 18mm) to the to brake hydroboost, except the rubber hose going to power steering fluid reservoir. Disconnect the one of the two power steering fluid lines to the steering box, the one that connects to the power steering fluid cooler (20mm crow's foot or short line wrench needed). Disconnect the heater hose on the driver side, where it junctions into where it connects to the degas bottle. Disconnect all the electrical connectors on the driver side inner fender well. Position all wiring out of the way, in preparation for cab lifting. Disconnect the three ABS HCU lines at the HCU and fold over (you will know which three I'm talking about by looking at them). Last, but not least, Remove the front two cab mount nuts on either side of the charge air cooler (18mm).
-Reposition hoist arms to the four corners of the cab, and have an assistant operate the lift SLOWLY, while someone else keeps watch on the progress of the lift. As the cab is raised, you will be able to address any forgotten disconnects at this point. __________________
-Begin by positioning the vehicle onto the hoist where it can be lifted. Roll the vehicle straight backwards just until you can open all four doors without hitting the posts of the hoist. Remove the rear seat (18mm nuts and TX-50 bolts I think). Remove all four door opening scuff plates by simply prying on them gently. Once the rear seat is removed, lift up on the carpet to expose the rear cab mount bolts. You will need a 24mm or 15/16" socket for the bolt on the driver side, and a 21mm or 13/16" socket for the bolt on the passenger side. Once removed, lift up on the carpet until access can be gained to the middle row bolts, just behind the front seats. You will see a rubber grommet plug to remove before you have access to the bolts. Again driver side bolt is 24mm or 15/16" and passenger side is 21mm or 13/16". Remove both the driver and passenger side kick panels. Remove the 10mm bolt securing the steering coupler to the steering column, and once removed, telescope the lower shaft all the way through the firewall. Roll up the carpet on both driver and passenger sides to expose the grommets covering the front cab mount bolts. Again driver side bolt is 24mm or 15/16" and passenger side is 21mm or 13/16". Once removed, this concludes everything needed to remove from inside the vehicle. Roll the vehicle forward to position it onto the lift.
-Raise the vehicle in the air to disconnect everything needed underneath. Begin by draining the cooling system (don't forget to remove the coolant degas bottle cap first). Loosen the plastic 19mm or 3/4" radiator drain petcock. Disconnect both front ABS wheel speed sensors at the rearward sides of both front inner fenderwells. Disconnect the ground strap located underneath the vehicle, just behind the passenger side inner fender well (8mm bolt). Disconnect the parking brake cable at the junction just under the driver side framerail. Once done, fish the front cable through the body mount bracket and leave hanging. Disconnect the shifter cable at the transmission manual lever, and the cable mounting bracket and leave hanging. Disconnect the lower rad hose from the radiator. Disconnect the two transmission fluid cooler lines at the radiator (you will need to remove the safety lock plastic clips first, and you'll need the special spring lock coupler tool to disconnect the lines). Remove the two 8mm bolts that secure the power steering fluid cooler to the lower rad support facing the front of the vehicle, and leave the cooler hanging. Disconnect the transmission fluid cooler lines from the external fluid filter housing on the passenger side of the vehicle. Remove all plastic pushpins that secure the rubber air deflector to the lower rad support.
-Evacuate the A/C. Remove all the plastic pushpins at the upper rad support, and disconnect the main battery positive cable retaining push clips as well. Working on the passenger side of the vehicle in the engine compartment, disconnect the A/C line at the suction accumulator (one 13mm nut). Remove the one 8mm bolt securing the engine ground strap to the firewall, just behind the MAP sensor. Disconnect the vacuum line for your pulse vacuum hubs. Remove the passenger side battery. Disconnect the main wiring connected to passenger side battery positive cable. Disconnect the ground strap that's connected to the negative battery cable on the passenger side of the vehicle you now have access to, with the battery removed. Disconnect the "squeeze and pull" type connection by the vacuum (yellow with light blue stripe coloured wire). Disconnect the MAP sensor hose from the intake manifold, and move out of the way. Disconnect the heater hose at the passenger side, just below the alternator, where it connects to the metal tube going into the front cover. Disconnect the upper of the two A/C lines at the top of the A/C condensor (one 13mm nut). Remove both hot and cold side charge air cooler tubes (11mm or 7/16" to loosen the clamps). Disconnect the upper rad hose. Remove the two upper rad support brackets (four 8mm bolts in total). Remove the two 8mm bolts that secure the fan shroud to the rad and remove the shroud. Remove the coolant degas bottle (two 8mm bolts). Remove the entire air cleaner assembly (don't forget to remove the airflow restrictor gauge and disconnect the MAF sensor first). Disconnect the main central junction box feed to the driver side battery positive cable. Remove the driver side battery. Remove the battery tray (four 13mm bolts). Disconnect two of the three PCM main connectors (it will be pretty obvious which two). Disconnect the hose at the bottom of the power steering fluid reservoir (make sure you have a drain bucket below before doing this because it will be messy). Disconnect all lines (two I think both 18mm) to the to brake hydroboost, except the rubber hose going to power steering fluid reservoir. Disconnect the one of the two power steering fluid lines to the steering box, the one that connects to the power steering fluid cooler (20mm crow's foot or short line wrench needed). Disconnect the heater hose on the driver side, where it junctions into where it connects to the degas bottle. Disconnect all the electrical connectors on the driver side inner fender well. Position all wiring out of the way, in preparation for cab lifting. Disconnect the three ABS HCU lines at the HCU and fold over (you will know which three I'm talking about by looking at them). Last, but not least, Remove the front two cab mount nuts on either side of the charge air cooler (18mm).
-Reposition hoist arms to the four corners of the cab, and have an assistant operate the lift SLOWLY, while someone else keeps watch on the progress of the lift. As the cab is raised, you will be able to address any forgotten disconnects at this point. __________________
#13
08-26-2011, 09:33 AM
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Oh yeah... 15-20 minutes... tops... then off with the cab. 
I'm not sure my garage is gonna handle that. I don't think I can lift the truck with my lift. My lift is meant for my Jeep and Camaro, and is positioned in the garage space to allow for movement around a vehicle of that size. The truck is 5 feet longer and isn't going to work.
Just to be absolutely certain: the head gaskets can be replaced without removing the cab, correct?
I'm not sure my garage is gonna handle that. I don't think I can lift the truck with my lift. My lift is meant for my Jeep and Camaro, and is positioned in the garage space to allow for movement around a vehicle of that size. The truck is 5 feet longer and isn't going to work.
Just to be absolutely certain: the head gaskets can be replaced without removing the cab, correct?
#14
08-26-2011, 10:53 AM
YES headgaskets can be done even some of the techs do it with the cab on like Tim said its a personal preference
with the cab on you just need to pull the a/c box on the pasenger side for a little more room
I know a few guys here have done it hopefulley they will chime in and give you some pointers
#15
08-26-2011, 11:07 AM
Oh yeah... 15-20 minutes... tops... then off with the cab.
I'm not sure my garage is gonna handle that. I don't think I can lift the truck with my lift. My lift is meant for my Jeep and Camaro, and is positioned in the garage space to allow for movement around a vehicle of that size. The truck is 5 feet longer and isn't going to work.
Just to be absolutely certain: the head gaskets can be replaced without removing the cab, correct?
I'm not sure my garage is gonna handle that. I don't think I can lift the truck with my lift. My lift is meant for my Jeep and Camaro, and is positioned in the garage space to allow for movement around a vehicle of that size. The truck is 5 feet longer and isn't going to work.
Just to be absolutely certain: the head gaskets can be replaced without removing the cab, correct?