Download the hpop guide in the ford doctors link in my signature. It has some good troubleshooting that should help you. It says after you identify which side is causing problems you then unplug the injectors and crank and make sure no oil is spouting out or around the base.

 

I'm under the impression that I am supposed to see oil coming out evenly from each injector but I see no oil while cracking. Am I missing something here?

 

I don't think you are going to see any oil discharge if the injectors are not firing. In the guide I posted above it tells you to dead head each line off the hpop one at a time to identify which side is causing problems. It has you disconnect the injectors electrical connection so they don't fire and check for signs of leakage.

 

I wonder if your mechanic may of installed the lpop the wrong way and caused damaged to the front cover. That would be a good check to test for oil pressure on the low side. If he messed that up he should be on the hook for it but I wouldn't want him working on it. You should call and ask him which way the lpop goes, you already p'd him off once why not do it again.

Here is a link to the melling lpop install but that one it does not matter which way you install it. With oem you can only install it one way or it will cause damage to the front cover and a hard/no start situation.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...p-install.html

 

Did you re-connect the 42 pin connector that normally sits above the driver's side valve cover? Unless that is plugged in, the injectors won't be able to fire, and you won't see oil discharge from the injector nozzles.

It's also worth noting for others who are trying to help....Jim said when he checked the HPOP reservoir level it was about 2" down from the top. He filled it up and the engine started after long cranking. He checked the level again immediately after shutdown and it was full to the top and bled down to about the 3/4"-1" mark.

Metal flakes in the oil has me concerned. I wondered if the LPOP was installed backwards. It was an OEM piece (vs Melling etc). Jim says the engine cranks and he doesn't see oil pressure on the dash gauge, then the gauge moves and the engine starts. Should he pull the LPOP and check his mechanic's work?

AE would be really nice about now. However, Jim's idea to pull the ICP sensor and see how much oil comes out is a bit of genius trouble shooting. He said there wasn't much oil while cranking. I would think there would be a nice steady stream of oil coming out that hole but I've never tried it so I'm not sure. Has anyone else done this before? If so, did it make a huge mess. At this point I am suspecting the HPOP is taking a while to build pressure.

Oil discharge should be about 1 tbl spoon or so each time the injector fires. If all your wiring harnesses are connected, then you should see oil while cranking. If you don't get oil, then either the injectors are not firing or there is no oil available. Easy way to check is to feel the injector solenoids while someone cranks the engine. You will be able to feel when the solenoid pops (opens the poppet valve). If your solenoids are energizing and no oil is coming out, then we need to figure out where the oil is. On a properly functioning system, the IDM will not fire the injectors until there is about 500 psi available. So, you won't see oil or feel injector solenoids popping until that threshold is reached. In your case, sounds like the pressure is taking awhile to build and then finally gets around that 500 psi mark and the engine fires. Once fired up, more oil is available and the engine runs better.
If your engine started with the valve covers on, then it will start with them off also...did you get it started with the valve covers removed?

I wonder the same thing. However, wouldn't the symptom be a quick start and then the engine dies shortly after? The low reservoir level and the fact that very little oil comes out the ICP hole (with sensor removed) has me thinking something up top is bleeding oil when the engine is off and that's why it takes a while to start. The HPOP reservoir was full to the top right after they shut down the engine so the LPOP is providing oil....(could still be in backwards though...)

Shiny metal bits in the oil is still on my mind....

 

greg, i didn't undo the wire harness. I didn't see a reason to, i could get to the bolts fine with it still plugged together... just slid the valve cover out from under it after removing the bolts. We only took the driverside off at this time. I dont have a garage right now so it got dark on us last night. We saw no oil anywhere (unless we are looking at the wrong spot) AND the gauge read oil pressure... no it did not start.

 

you could temporally pipe in any kind of generic oil pressure gauge on the lop port on the drivers side back of the engine and see if you get any while cranking .

 

Oh, ok. It would be pretty hard to see at night. It's pretty hard to see during the daytime also. I don't have a good photo so I'll attach what I have. This pic is one of the passenger side injector as seen from the top center of the engine (fuel bowl area). Pretty much upside down from what it will look like when viewed from the fender. I have the solenoid removed in this photo but you should get the idea still. You can see the discharge spout that points back down at the head where the push rods come through.

Here is a pic of the 50cent mod as well as a photo of what a burned center pin looks like (since we were talking about that the other day on the phone...)

 

That is what I would do. I saw around 40-50 psi at idle. Not sure what pressure you should see while cranking. Here is a picture of the test port by the oil filter.

Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums - tdpower's Album: Useful pics - Picture

 

Boy that is on my mind too ...I'm leaning toward the "last fixed" is the most likely cause. I want to see the LPOP and oil pressure at crank over. I'm pulling the balancer and doing a visual on the pump/case. I want to know the source of those "shiny metal bits".

 

Me too. How probable is it that the LPOP was installed backwards, ground up the alum cover, the small pieces travel up to the HPOP and collect in the anti-drain back check valve assembly in the block? Would have to be pretty small pieces to get past the HPOP reservoir screen...

I am still a little fuzzy about how the anti-drain valve assembly works exactly. The book says it allows unfiltered oil to the HPOP during cold starts. I wonder what defines a 'cold start' and how can that valve know the difference?

At any rate....something is allowing oil to drain out of the reservoir and that's causing the long crank times I think. A few of us have questioned the LPOP already. Its easy enough to get off so maybe it's worth the time to investigate? Would be nice to know for sure...

 

Let's try a rare earth magnet into the oil with the "shiny metal bits"...if they are non-magnetic "shiny bits" we pull the lpop cover off. If the cover is chewed up we call Luigi to "talk" to the "mechanic" who worked on this truck. I'm betting an adult beverage he put the lpop in backwards. Can I be wrong, sure...happens quite often. But...from post #1 I suspected this "mechanic" did not know what he was doing and was more than happy to spend the OP money on proving that. Contrary to what he said, nearly everything can be tested...the hard part is knowing how to set up the test.

 

I did use my big magnet that i have thats on a telescopic handle to grab bolts that fall down in those places they always fall too and it didn't pull them out of the oil... the only shiny metal on the magnet was where i touched the dipstick to it and i think the oil made the metal stay on the magnet.

 

I'm with Neal, last fixed

 

How about getting some of the metal bits seperated from the oil using a solvent and a rag. Put a bunch of the oil on a rag in the mouth of a funnel and slowly pour gas through the funnel. Oil dissolves leaving shiny metal and then magnetically test them.

If they prove to be non-magnetic, I say (FWIW), off comes the harmonic balancer...that is the only way I know to find out if Lurch put the LPOP in correctly. Even if you hook an oil pressure gauge up, you would have pressure with the pump in backwards for awhile. It just seems that you never had "shiny metal bits" in your oil before he worked on it, you do now, and they appear to be non-magnetic. Have camera ready to chronicle disassembly for evidence.