Finally got an appointment at Montrose Ford. My front tires were going bald on the outside edges. I are really far. also got a CEL right after their last TSB flash, including a permanent ice warning. They kept my vehicle for 5 hours. Result?
Truck has AFE air intake, cannot be tested.
And while I don't see their logic, they had no problems alienating a customer with 3 Ford trucks.
Took it to BIG-O, they discovered 2 defective BFG's. Alignment was fine. Called dealer. No can fix due to air filter. Similar experiences with last truck with this dealer, but others are real far. Know your dealer!

 

 

Seems like the tech has a pretty firm grasp on step 1! I mean seriously you know this stuff is going to be an issue. How difficult is it to swap the stock intake back in and save a lot of wasted time?

 

Couldn't type worth crap on the DroidX earlier, but I'm back home now with a normal keyboard.

I realize that any excuses to get out of solving problems can and will be taken by some dealers. And sure, switching out the air filter back to stock will only take an hour. But I've had no problems/CEL's for 7 months, until the last TSB, afterwhich I got about 15 codes as soon as I left the lot, including the ice warning.

Seems to me that logic would dictate there is a problem somewhere other than the air filter. And even if it was back to the stock air filter, I'm pretty tired of the sluggishness of this truck, and the dealer's excuses about looking at it. I don't think they know how to fix it.

So I'm going to cancel my extended warranty, and put the penalized refund towards a chip/tuner, which will more than likely solve all my problems. The tech told me so himself, but the policy at this dealership is to deny all warranty claims for any changes to original vehicle spec.

My truck was "written up" in their computer, so that I could not take it in for warranty service elsewhere. On the list were other serious offenses like bedcover, bedmat, toolbox, cell phone booster, window tinting etc.
They felt that any one of these could have caused the unusual tire wear or numerous CEL's. We all know different.
At least that's all according to the service manager. The tech was deliberately kept from me, but we spoke anyway, and he laughed at some of this, but he likes his job, so...

He even explained to me how my problem is most likely a sensor(s), or dirty EGR, and how many if these niggling emission issues were solved by guys deleting the whole DPF/EGR, etc. in the 6.4's, and how reliable they became after. But policy is policy. It can not be encouraged, and at this dealer, it must be punished.

They also say Ford does not cover defective tires even if I put the stock filter back on. And BFG's policy in general, according to Big-O, is they too deny almost all tire warranty claims as a matter of policy. Helps the bottom line.

I think everybody is lying to me because everyone is too lazy to provide old fashioned customer support.
If all aftermarket air filters caused iummediate CEL's and unusual front tire wear, few would be sold. These are just excuses.

They even refused to put in friction modifier in my posi-rear end, as it is starting to chatter. It took 2 visits to figure that one out. Of course, they wanted to be paid for 5 hours of diagnostic work which led to few conclusions.
I said to them that if their policy is to deny all related or unrelated claims, why not tell me before the incomplete diagnostic, since I told them up front about it. They even noticed my oil filter was not Ford, and laughed at the whole Magnusson Moss thing. And they are right...they have more money than I do, so if they won't play ball there's nothing I can do, and their willingness to put in the extra time to do the notes in the computer to ban further service is just a way of sticking it to irritating customers.

I think the problem is upper and middle management, and not necessarily the techs. Anyhoo, that's just my take on this. I have some friends at other dealers (much further away), soif I really wanted service for my "heavily modified" truck, I could still get it without this hassle.

 

Here are a few of the codes that popped up after the last service. Like within a mile of that last TSB flash in May or June:

P2A00
P164A
P2A00
P164A (again)
MIL ON
MONITRS
2 INC
FUEL
02 HTR
7 READY
MISFIRE
COMP
CATALYST
HTD CAT
SEC AIR
02 SNSR
EGR

and also the ice/slippery conditions icon on dash

Too tired to write them all here. There was like another half dozen...
CEL is still on after dealer visit, since they were unable to seriously look at truck. They deny there are performance issues related to altitude, or regeneration. Mine has even stalled during regeneration if I hit the throttle during...probably truck knows I have a better air filter, and is acting out.

 

Aside from your dealership issue, a while back when the latest flash was released to re calibrate the transmission,etc.. There were several reports of other ECM events un related and false. Many of us have elected to not get this latest flash. My truck currently sits with the 400/800 flash being the last one.

But, you are scaring me as I have ordered the AFE intake.

 

Here is the post, I don't remember who posted it so I can't give proper credit, I think it was Paul Bruckne.


Repeat NOx MIL P164A DTC & TSB/SSM
I've been waiting before I chimed-in here regarding the repeat NOx MIL DTC P164A pending having some definitive information regarding the issue since the trans-shift calibration update was released. From what I've been able to discern, talking with engineering and our product concern engineers, there appears to have been three (3) variables in play. The SSM that was recently released (3266 - 6.7L DIESEL - DTC P164A RESETTING AFTER TSB 11-04-21) is an attempt to provide a course of action for Dealers to follow that will allow to correctly diagnose the repeat MIL that some of you have been experiencing. Below you will find a summary of the sequence of events that will hopefully provide some closure.

Apparently there was a disconnect in TSB 11-04-21 and it's limitations in addressing P0164 in that due to the nature of the concern, the TSB would address "some" of the NOx MIL issues under a specific set of operating conditions. The primary task of that TSB was to address shift quality while also tweaking a few other parameters of the calibration to address certain operating conditions that could trip a MIL. However, those limitations and the communication of the information to the field/dealers may have been somewhat confusing as there were more than one root cause for the initial complaint of repeat MIL/DTC P164A.

As some of you have come to know, there are trucks that have needed both the NOx Sensor replacement along with having the calibration updated. The third piece or variable that has come into play is that the adaptive NOx table reset process to force the adaptive tables to adjust to align with the new NOx sensor output and calibration change requires what I can only describe as excessively labor intensive. Based on the dialog I've had over the last couple days with the calibration folks and powertrain, I'm not the only one that acknowledges this and there's a full court press to address.

In my attempt to provide some of the details, please be aware that due to the nature of the overall system and the sensitivity of the components involved, if the procedure is not performed and verified correctly a repeat NOx MIL and DTC P0164 may reset. Those involved (my apologies to those here participating on FTE) are acutely aware that this has caused major frustration from both the Owner's and the Dealer/Technician service side.

From the communications that I have had, SSM-3266 is the initial stop-gap measure to address those vehicles / customers that have had repeat MILs caused by DTC P0164. Engineering has been working directly with 7 vehicles/customers here locally with 5 having been confirmed fixed with the other 2 working through the logistics of getting them in to be serviced as they are currently in use as work trucks. There will be further actions in the future to improve the lengthy process that's involved to verify that the NOx system is operating within it's nominal range.

Considering all the sensitivity and frustration around this repeat MIL issue, here's a summary of the facts as I know them, what has transpired and next steps. Back before the end of the year, engineering was made aware of the P164A NOx codes being seen the in field. Initial investigation saw the need to modify the calibration parameters for certain operating conditions and release a calibration update. After the calibration update, over the course of another month or so, the engineering is still being advised by the product concern team that we're still seeing P164A / MIL issues. Knowing that a calibration change had been made to address the issue, engineering initiated another investigation of the issue and determined that some NOx sensors were showing sensitivity variability from part to part. The sensor supplier was then contacted and made aware of the findings. The supplier then initiates their own investigation to substantiate those findings.

The end result was that under the right conditions the NOx sensor manufacturing process would allow for internal contamination of the sensor. The manufacturing process has since been changed, now using laser welding vs. spot welding. Engineering is/was convinced that when a defective sensor is replaced with the new part and/or a calibration update (revised again for TSB 11-04-21) that the NOx / P164A MIL issues should be resolved. That brings us to today (early last week actually) and we're still seeing NOx / P164A repeat MIL/DTCs being set. Engineering, under pressure from most every customer touch point in the company looks again at the code in the powertrain control module. What's discovered is that during the NOx table reset process using IDS, that the table reset acknowledgement is being communicated from the powertrain control module back to the IDS tool as being completed when in-fact it had not been reset. Thus even if you updated the calibration and/or replaced the NOx sensor, there was considerable risk that another repeat MIL/P164A code event would occur depending on the failure mode and how far the NOx table had been offset. The Dealer or Technician would not know that the table wasn't reset or that a repeat MIL was likely under the right conditions.

The SSM 3266 was released to advise that multiple NOx table resets may be required to truly reset the table. To be sure, the sensor data and min/max table data needs to be viewed during several zero pedal coast-down events from 50 MPH to fall within a specific range. I suspect in the near future, a calibration revision will be forthcoming to modify the NOx table reset function. I know this has caused quite a stir here on this forum between a number of the members and I truly hope this helps put some of that to rest. It's one of those issues that had many tails to it, several failure modes all resulting in the same basic MIL/ P0164A DTC.

 

Looks to me like someone didnt do the last step in a reflash.......clear all codes that are generated by a reprogram.

 

I don't think the info I posted is all that relevant to the situation other than the fact that ref lashes should be seriously considered before doing and they obviously can create false codes.

Obviously, Mr. Vloney has a bead on it. Good to know.

 

Rushejj, I think your info was spot on! Wish I had it yesterday!
And if you were going to my dealer, you would already have been denied service because you have a non-stock truck (horns, stereo, air, etc.). But seriously, most dealers won't give you so much crap...only a select minority.
The point of my post is to discuss potential "upgrades" with your preferred dealer BEFORE you make them.
The AFE is an improvement, but not as noticeable of one as on the older trucks. They do make things a little louder, but just a little. It's a good upgrade though. Just make sure you get the dry filter version. The wet version has fallen out of favor recently.

 

Just my experience with BFG....I took my 05 in last year to a local tire dealer as the 6 yr old BFGs were checking on the sidewalls from age. Tires had less than 18K miles on them. BFG bought me 5 new tires at my cost of $125 (R&R fees) I was in and out of there in under an hour.

Some dealers will choose to err on the side of caution for a variety of reasons. It only hurts when it's your truck affected by this. Sorry about your issues....

 

Just called BFG, and they are looking into it. The lady took down all my info. She spoke English, and seemed interested. Looks like both the dealer and Big-O just wanted to sell me new tires! Keeping my fingers crossed.

 

Just another tool to keep in your back pocket. Under Magnuson Moss Act, the manufacturer cannot void warranty coverage even if an aftermarket mod has been installed. Here is some reading on the matter: Magnuson-Moss Act

 

As I mentioned in my post already, we had that conversation at the dealer. He said he didn't care about the M-M act, and that I would run out of money first, before they ran out of money.
I got the sense that the service mgr wanted me to know that he was God (or at least the final word), as far as warranty claims were concerned. He absolutely did not want to be challenged, and hated modders.

 

I didn't catch that in your previous post. They can laugh all they want... it's a law and it's enforcable. Guys like these eventually get nailed. Hopefully you won't have to play that card.

I got caught up in a scenario like this. I installed a snow plow on a truck. The truck was bought with a snow plow prep package! I was told that my snow plow modification (i.e. installing one) voided my warranty. Once you talk to the right level, it doesn't take long to fix...