Dealer experience report
Junior User
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: america
Couldn't type worth crap on the DroidX earlier, but I'm back home now with a normal keyboard.
I realize that any excuses to get out of solving problems can and will be taken by some dealers. And sure, switching out the air filter back to stock will only take an hour. But I've had no problems/CEL's for 7 months, until the last TSB, afterwhich I got about 15 codes as soon as I left the lot, including the ice warning.
Seems to me that logic would dictate there is a problem somewhere other than the air filter. And even if it was back to the stock air filter, I'm pretty tired of the sluggishness of this truck, and the dealer's excuses about looking at it. I don't think they know how to fix it.
So I'm going to cancel my extended warranty, and put the penalized refund towards a chip/tuner, which will more than likely solve all my problems. The tech told me so himself, but the policy at this dealership is to deny all warranty claims for any changes to original vehicle spec.
My truck was "written up" in their computer, so that I could not take it in for warranty service elsewhere. On the list were other serious offenses like bedcover, bedmat, toolbox, cell phone booster, window tinting etc.
They felt that any one of these could have caused the unusual tire wear or numerous CEL's. We all know different.
At least that's all according to the service manager. The tech was deliberately kept from me, but we spoke anyway, and he laughed at some of this, but he likes his job, so...
He even explained to me how my problem is most likely a sensor(s), or dirty EGR, and how many if these niggling emission issues were solved by guys deleting the whole DPF/EGR, etc. in the 6.4's, and how reliable they became after. But policy is policy. It can not be encouraged, and at this dealer, it must be punished.
They also say Ford does not cover defective tires even if I put the stock filter back on. And BFG's policy in general, according to Big-O, is they too deny almost all tire warranty claims as a matter of policy. Helps the bottom line.
I think everybody is lying to me because everyone is too lazy to provide old fashioned customer support.
If all aftermarket air filters caused iummediate CEL's and unusual front tire wear, few would be sold. These are just excuses.
They even refused to put in friction modifier in my posi-rear end, as it is starting to chatter. It took 2 visits to figure that one out. Of course, they wanted to be paid for 5 hours of diagnostic work which led to few conclusions.
I said to them that if their policy is to deny all related or unrelated claims, why not tell me before the incomplete diagnostic, since I told them up front about it. They even noticed my oil filter was not Ford, and laughed at the whole Magnusson Moss thing. And they are right...they have more money than I do, so if they won't play ball there's nothing I can do, and their willingness to put in the extra time to do the notes in the computer to ban further service is just a way of sticking it to irritating customers.
I think the problem is upper and middle management, and not necessarily the techs. Anyhoo, that's just my take on this. I have some friends at other dealers (much further away), soif I really wanted service for my "heavily modified" truck, I could still get it without this hassle.
I realize that any excuses to get out of solving problems can and will be taken by some dealers. And sure, switching out the air filter back to stock will only take an hour. But I've had no problems/CEL's for 7 months, until the last TSB, afterwhich I got about 15 codes as soon as I left the lot, including the ice warning.
Seems to me that logic would dictate there is a problem somewhere other than the air filter. And even if it was back to the stock air filter, I'm pretty tired of the sluggishness of this truck, and the dealer's excuses about looking at it. I don't think they know how to fix it.
So I'm going to cancel my extended warranty, and put the penalized refund towards a chip/tuner, which will more than likely solve all my problems. The tech told me so himself, but the policy at this dealership is to deny all warranty claims for any changes to original vehicle spec.
My truck was "written up" in their computer, so that I could not take it in for warranty service elsewhere. On the list were other serious offenses like bedcover, bedmat, toolbox, cell phone booster, window tinting etc.
They felt that any one of these could have caused the unusual tire wear or numerous CEL's. We all know different.
At least that's all according to the service manager. The tech was deliberately kept from me, but we spoke anyway, and he laughed at some of this, but he likes his job, so...
He even explained to me how my problem is most likely a sensor(s), or dirty EGR, and how many if these niggling emission issues were solved by guys deleting the whole DPF/EGR, etc. in the 6.4's, and how reliable they became after. But policy is policy. It can not be encouraged, and at this dealer, it must be punished.
They also say Ford does not cover defective tires even if I put the stock filter back on. And BFG's policy in general, according to Big-O, is they too deny almost all tire warranty claims as a matter of policy. Helps the bottom line.
I think everybody is lying to me because everyone is too lazy to provide old fashioned customer support.
If all aftermarket air filters caused iummediate CEL's and unusual front tire wear, few would be sold. These are just excuses.
They even refused to put in friction modifier in my posi-rear end, as it is starting to chatter. It took 2 visits to figure that one out. Of course, they wanted to be paid for 5 hours of diagnostic work which led to few conclusions.
I said to them that if their policy is to deny all related or unrelated claims, why not tell me before the incomplete diagnostic, since I told them up front about it. They even noticed my oil filter was not Ford, and laughed at the whole Magnusson Moss thing. And they are right...they have more money than I do, so if they won't play ball there's nothing I can do, and their willingness to put in the extra time to do the notes in the computer to ban further service is just a way of sticking it to irritating customers.
I think the problem is upper and middle management, and not necessarily the techs. Anyhoo, that's just my take on this. I have some friends at other dealers (much further away), soif I really wanted service for my "heavily modified" truck, I could still get it without this hassle.
Junior User
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: america
you go, man!
I see way too many people have nothing to do on a Friday night...LOL
Yes, I do tend to get sarcastic when I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall.
And I must admit, I'm ot really looking for anyone's approval. If we stick to the main isues, we don't have to like each other's style. We can still get stuff out of the posts, even funny ones or sarcastic ones.
This is my third Ford dually, and I've had recurring issues with the same few clowns at one dealership over the span of three trucks! That will eventually make you a little sarcastic even if you're usually not (though I tend to be). Like 720deere, my first dealer was pretty laid back, and even sold me a Banks six gun/exhaust that he installed. Times have changed perhaps...
But sarcasm and window tint aside, the facts are still important. I am still very concerned that no one at the top has definitively told me what could happen/what to do, when you put in the wrong coolant additive and drive on it for six months. I think the answer to this last bit is still important to a lot of folks on this forum.
And I can see a possibly innocent mistake like this happening to others because some dealers just aren't aware there is more than one coolant additive available.
At least the new dealer has taken care of the annoying CEL, and the truck runs much better.
Yes, I do tend to get sarcastic when I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall.
And I must admit, I'm ot really looking for anyone's approval. If we stick to the main isues, we don't have to like each other's style. We can still get stuff out of the posts, even funny ones or sarcastic ones.
This is my third Ford dually, and I've had recurring issues with the same few clowns at one dealership over the span of three trucks! That will eventually make you a little sarcastic even if you're usually not (though I tend to be). Like 720deere, my first dealer was pretty laid back, and even sold me a Banks six gun/exhaust that he installed. Times have changed perhaps...
But sarcasm and window tint aside, the facts are still important. I am still very concerned that no one at the top has definitively told me what could happen/what to do, when you put in the wrong coolant additive and drive on it for six months. I think the answer to this last bit is still important to a lot of folks on this forum.
And I can see a possibly innocent mistake like this happening to others because some dealers just aren't aware there is more than one coolant additive available.
At least the new dealer has taken care of the annoying CEL, and the truck runs much better.
sarcasm and ridicule are not out of line in such cases, along with fingerpointing and laughing.
Senior User
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
This site is such a tremendous resource! Anyone can learn a lot just by reading manageable little tid-bits of information from the experiences of others and by studying the available manuals (and EpicCowlick videos, LOL). I actually feel somewhat informed when I go to the dealer these days, and if it wasn't for this forum, I would have to believe everything the dealer tells me, and fully half of everything I've heard from (multiple) dealers has been either wrong or worse.
ken
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
Finally called Ford Customer Relations again. They neglected to call me back within 4 days as promised. I gave them 8 days.
They tell me that it is bad for the cooling system to use the coolant additive intended for the 7.3L engine. Something about corrosion and clogging.
The local dealer that put the wrong stuff in still hasn't called me as promised. Ford will NOT pay for a flush, since they feel the dealer was at fault (and rightly so). They are willing to call the dealer and urge them to take care of this, but they cannot force them to follow good business practices. Ford at least agrees the dealer made a mistake.
My main choices now are to go there and try to get them to attempt to undo some of the harm, and possibly risk even more potential (intentional?) damage. Or I can pay for the flush on my own, and take them to court. Seems like a lot of extra nonsense just because of poor training and an arrogant and adversarial attitude.
They tell me that it is bad for the cooling system to use the coolant additive intended for the 7.3L engine. Something about corrosion and clogging.
The local dealer that put the wrong stuff in still hasn't called me as promised. Ford will NOT pay for a flush, since they feel the dealer was at fault (and rightly so). They are willing to call the dealer and urge them to take care of this, but they cannot force them to follow good business practices. Ford at least agrees the dealer made a mistake.
My main choices now are to go there and try to get them to attempt to undo some of the harm, and possibly risk even more potential (intentional?) damage. Or I can pay for the flush on my own, and take them to court. Seems like a lot of extra nonsense just because of poor training and an arrogant and adversarial attitude.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,600
Likes: 84
I agree it's the dealers fault but on the other hand, Ford could pay to have this fixed then go after the dealer themselves.
Ford should have all sorts of power over a dealer even if their "independant."
Had you not caught this, engine damage will occur and Ford could be stuck with a large warranty repair bill down the road (if the problem was difficult to detect) because of this poor dealer.
It seeems it would be in Ford's interest to help.
Ford should have all sorts of power over a dealer even if their "independant."
Had you not caught this, engine damage will occur and Ford could be stuck with a large warranty repair bill down the road (if the problem was difficult to detect) because of this poor dealer.
It seeems it would be in Ford's interest to help.
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 25,479
Likes: 742
From: Isanti, MN
I agree it's the dealers fault but on the other hand, Ford could pay to have this fixed then go after the dealer themselves.
Ford should have all sorts of power over a dealer even if their "independant."
Had you not caught this, engine damage will occur and Ford could be stuck with a large warranty repair bill down the road (if the problem was difficult to detect) because of this poor dealer.
It seeems it would be in Ford's interest to help.
Ford should have all sorts of power over a dealer even if their "independant."
Had you not caught this, engine damage will occur and Ford could be stuck with a large warranty repair bill down the road (if the problem was difficult to detect) because of this poor dealer.
It seeems it would be in Ford's interest to help.
I think that Ford has done all that they could be asked to do in this situation, which is answer whether or not it could cause a problem. The dealer made the mistake, and therefore are responsible for fixing it. I really hope you have no trouble getting this done.
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,637
Likes: 0
From: Roll Tide, Roll
So the truck owner is then responsable for the ignorance of a dealer technician,I don't think so if it has the part #of the wrong coolant addative is on the R.O.this issue shoulda been resolved instantly. Going back to a worthless service department,at the customers cost. how much long term damage has the wrong stuff in there continuing to do?
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Don't understand some people having a go at Von Overkill - he is frustrated and with good reason. Other than delaying replacing the factory CAI he has made perfect sense.
As regards the coolant, my only worry would be letting scummy dealer #1 anywhere near my truck. I would not trust them to accidentally or deliberately do more damage. Being out $350 sucks, but for peace of mind I'd pay another dealer and keep on to Ford about reimbursing you.
As regards the coolant, my only worry would be letting scummy dealer #1 anywhere near my truck. I would not trust them to accidentally or deliberately do more damage. Being out $350 sucks, but for peace of mind I'd pay another dealer and keep on to Ford about reimbursing you.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,302
Likes: 1,153
From: Edmonton Alberta
I don't either. I understand his frustration.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,839
Likes: 2
Don't understand some people having a go at Von Overkill - he is frustrated and with good reason. Other than delaying replacing the factory CAI he has made perfect sense.
As regards the coolant, my only worry would be letting scummy dealer #1 anywhere near my truck. I would not trust them to accidentally or deliberately do more damage. Being out $350 sucks, but for peace of mind I'd pay another dealer and keep on to Ford about reimbursing you.
As regards the coolant, my only worry would be letting scummy dealer #1 anywhere near my truck. I would not trust them to accidentally or deliberately do more damage. Being out $350 sucks, but for peace of mind I'd pay another dealer and keep on to Ford about reimbursing you.
Regards
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
Thanks for the support fellow FTE'ers.
I made an appontment with the bad dealer for this Friday for the free coolant flush.
I am moving this month, so I don't have the time to shedule this with the other long distance dealers. I have mixed feelings about letting my truck near this guy, but I don't have the time to wait until I'm moved in, as I'm putting on a lot of miles now during the moving process.
This experience has been something like having a restaurant serve you an inedible meal, and if you complain, who knows what the cook in the kitchen might do to spite you! If I wasn't moving, I'd shell out the dough and go to any repair place that could prove to me they knew which coolant was the correct one.
Stay tuned!
I made an appontment with the bad dealer for this Friday for the free coolant flush.
I am moving this month, so I don't have the time to shedule this with the other long distance dealers. I have mixed feelings about letting my truck near this guy, but I don't have the time to wait until I'm moved in, as I'm putting on a lot of miles now during the moving process.
This experience has been something like having a restaurant serve you an inedible meal, and if you complain, who knows what the cook in the kitchen might do to spite you! If I wasn't moving, I'd shell out the dough and go to any repair place that could prove to me they knew which coolant was the correct one.
Stay tuned!
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
Had to cancel the flush appointment for today. Can't find my receipt from the dealer that sold me the wrong additive, and they won't do free flush without my original receipt. Too many stacks of paper to go through, and they weren't organized properly - my fault. Probably not worth my time to keep looking. I will likely just just pay another shop myself, to flush my fluid.
Oh, and I found out today that dealer #2 was also wrong when he told me the VC-8 coolant additive was for the 7.3L engine. In actuality, it is used on both the 6.0L and the 6.4L, but not the 7.3L or the 6.7L.
Unless this guy is wrong also....
Oh, and I found out today that dealer #2 was also wrong when he told me the VC-8 coolant additive was for the 7.3L engine. In actuality, it is used on both the 6.0L and the 6.4L, but not the 7.3L or the 6.7L.
Unless this guy is wrong also....
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
VC-8 compatible with VC-4 green coolant and VC-7 gold coolant which would mean it is good for 7.3 through 6.4 engines. VC-12 is the additive for specialty orange coolant (VC-3B).
Is it so unreasonable to expect Ford dealership staff to know something about what they do/sell there?
At least I can come on the forum here and find out what I need to know and keep my dealership staff on their toes!
Since I have decided to avoid another Faux Pas with a local dealer and have an independent shop flush my coolant, as I understand it I need the VC-3B specialty orange coolant and the VC-12 additive for the 6.7L?
You can understand why I'm so paranoid after so many ambiguities with the dealers and with them always trying to pin everything on me. It's already costing me a whole bunch to correct dealer mistakes, so now that I'm getting more hands on, I want to be sure I don't screw myself.
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,598
Likes: 5
From: Maryland
I would have to go back and read the diesel supplement to be 100% sure, but on a total flush with new coolant being installed, I don't think you need the revitalizer additive. Don't take that one to the bank. Personally I would install the new coolant and test it. The only issue that you should have is if they try to install a 50/50 mix. No matter how hard you try there is bound to be water left in the system that you can't get out. Coolant should be mixed to a greater concentration than 50% to allow for trapped water.