My truck is the one with the stage 2's of which Curtis was referring.

Stick with 1's over 2's. My truck runs well, but not close to what Bill is running currently with the stage 1's in an identical truck. If you plan on leaving the rest of the truck stock, the 160/0% or 175/146 injectors will be your best bet.

Seriously.

 

Cody,

Can you elaborate more on this?

I have the 175/146 Single shots & Van turbo in my F-250 which is primarily used for towing lately. EGT's are good thanks to the single shots & tuning, DI intercooler & van turbo. But if I can drop the EGT's even more with hybrids/Stage II's and have the flexibility they offer then why not? Especially when towing like this.........

 

My bet is that you have very little problems keeping up with high pressure oil demands with your "Stage 1" injectors right now.

Stage 2's are fairly oil-hungry because the oil side of the injector has to react and move so much more quickly (just a side effect of the larger nozzles) so the HPOP will have a harder time keeping up. Besides, there isn't any way to make any more power with a 2 over a 1. There isn't any more fuel there. Stage 2's are kind of worthless because they just don't make much sense. You're still stuck in the 380-390 HP range (same as a "stage 1") due to the fuel volume of the injector, but you're paying more. You're using more high pressure oil to boot....so there's an added expense of needing a higher displacement pump setup just to get the maximum efficiency of the injector.

Realistically, your two options boil down to the Stage 1's you have and "hybrids". Typically, the lower capacity hybrids are ok to use with the stock oil pump (unless it's tired) since theoretically they use 71% of the oil that a similarly-sized AA-based injector will use.

I've never been keen on suggesting the expense of using "huge" (relative term) injectors for towing rigs. Yes, nozzle size is nice for certain operating conditions, but why spend money on injectors capable of 450+ horsepower when you will NEVER be able to use that power? Heck, put 100-200% nozzles on stock injectors, have the tuning altered for those nozzles, and maintain stock-injector horsepower levels that are useful when towing heavy.

Realistically, 80 additional horsepower is 80 additional horsepower regardless of what injector you use. The only issue you'll run into by going with an AA/AB/AD based injector with larger nozzles will be an HPO deficiency. Whether you use 2.5 milliseconds of actual injector on-time or 4 milliseconds to empty the same .16cc of fuel from a stage 2 or stage 1 injector is your choice.

 

Ahhh, I had it backwards. I kept thinking yours had the I's, and Bill had the 2's.

 

After re-reading my previous post (and being too lazy to rewrite the whole thing) it may seem like I don't like the injectors I have. That couldn't be farther from the truth. I love the way these Stage 2 injectors run. However, I got them with a purpose in mind; not just because they are "Stage 2" injectors. I hate the word "stage" when used to describe progressive steps (especially in the automotive world).

I have a truck that's kind of a low-budget hot rod. It's just a simple regular cab 2wd truck that sees daily usage and is very low-stress to drive. It currently makes 375-385 HP on a dyno and runs a 14.8/93 quarter (non "boosted" launch due to severe traction issues). Do I ever run it hard? Not on the street....and that's what I do with it 100% of the time. Do I ever use the power? No. The main reason for replacing my AD injectors was due to the fact that they were worn out (240K miles and they were having cold start issues).

I wanted to be able to keep everything else stock (turbo, transmission, high pressure oil pump, exhaust, etc.) and get a set of singles that would run well. Stage 1's would have been fine with me, but these 2's happened to be available and the price was right.

They work well for what I do with the truck and if I wanted to get that last bit of power out of the truck, I'd get a new oil pump as my current stock pump is just a bit too tired to maintain 2800+ PSI with the pulse width required to completely empty the injector.

In the end, I guess it's not up to anyone on the internet to decide what injector is right for you. There are plenty of people out there who have tuned for quite a few injector "sizes" that can make your truck do what you want it to do. Just be aware that every truck is going to react differently to modifications (especially injectors) and as you stray farther from stock, the tuning becomes more hit-and-miss without live tuning.

 

Nah, Bill's truck with the 1's will spank my truck's butt......and they're identical trucks.

 

Hey Cody you ain't gonna get a good time with a one wheel wonder on a bicycle tire....lol
bet that was a heluva black streak down the track
Thanks for the info bud

 

Actually, once I was rolling, the truck hooked well. I have a stock limited slip and on my second run (daily driver tune), I did get my pee-pee spanked by one of the track officials for leaving a huge black line out of the hole. If I hammered it quickly off the line, the limited slip told me to get bent. Conversely, rolling on the throttle off the line let the limited slip do it's job....it just ate up my 60' time. There was no perceivable wheel slip in that run....the squealing was from the Mustang. My tires don't make noise when they spin.

Bill's 6.0L on the other hand was ALWAYS a one-tire-fire.

 

Yep I saw the vid of Bill's 6.0 & lmao at his burn out coming to the line, bet the guy in the '60 Chev was pissed when that big a$$ truck walked by him...lol

Still haven't done a burn out with mine (too scared of tearing up chit) but it does chirp both rear tires when it hits 2nd gear...lol

 

Your right Cody. In the tow tunes she stays strong.



In the higher HP tunes she will drop over time. But she's mostly used for towing now. Thank you for taking the time to answere these questions. I understand your posts but I have 1 addition question.

Wouldn't I see a drop in EGT's (towing) if I changed to hybrids and left all else the same?? Assuming that my HPOP will be able to keep up with the programming demand.

 

Hey CJ don't worry about it man. You are bringing nothing bus valuable questions and opinions to this thread. BTW man im glad that both of us can benefit from this thread. If in the end we both benefit from this thread and learn something then I am happy!

I think I might go with stage 1s and be happier then a pig in ****.

dennis

 

Possibly...until you started adding more power than what your current towing tune is giving you. More power requires more fuel..... If you're currently towing with a tune that gives you 40-60 HP above stock now, you will likely be limited to that same amount of power above stock with injectors that cost you a lot of money.

The only issue with "hybrids" at that point is that more injection pressure is usually commanded across the board because of the lower hydraulic pressure multiplication inside the "hybrid" injectors. Therefore the pump MAY work and it MAY NOT.

 

Thanks Dennis
I'm right with you, I believe I'll end up with a set Of Cass stg 1s & let Bill work his magic on the chip when the time comes

 

2 of the tunes on my chip are tow tunes. One +40hp and ane +60hp. Been very happy with this setup for towing and have not changed anything the last 3 years. I really like the shift to OD set at 55 mph to help prevent the low rpm lugging and the automatic downshifts and the TC lockup down to 30 mph to help slow the load down. But I'm looking for trying something different in the 2000 Excursion I bought in February since it has forged rods.


Thanks for your input/insight. I still have not decided on an "end state" or "vision" for the Excursion when it comes to the power level I want. I'm leaning towards to 400-450 hp level. But there is plenty of things that need to get taken care of on it before injectors, turbo & a HPOP.

 

This is were I am at with the Excursion Curtis. If I get the hybrids this fall/winter I can get them tuned for the stock turbo & fuel system until I can afford the $ for a HPOP and turbo. Then I just need to update to tunes as I add components.

Thanks for all your input - I have learned alot from you the past 6 years..