Hey folks another injector thread here. I have been doing a lot of research about injectors and what I am going to buy. I have decided to buy the injectors from Clay, but I have a couple of more questions.

I recently saw a thread, which of course I cant find, and he added stage 3's to his truck. My question is, is there any added benefits in going with stage 2's or 3's if everything else on the truck is basically stock? All I have is a 6637, 4 inch mbrp, and a TS 6 position chip.

The novice I am about diesels, I gather the bigger the injector is, the more fuel you will be pumping into the motor, but unless you have an upgraded fuel system, you would never see the difference? Is that correct?

I also see that I will need to send my chip out, which I narrowed down to PHP, and have it retuned for my truck because it will have new single shot injectors. How did you guys go about doing this? Did you take it out, send it to get retuned and then put it back in after you did the injectors? I assume the truck wont run unless you have the new chip in because the computer wont work with the single shots?

If that is the case then I would want to pull it out now, send it and have it back before I pull the injectors and switch them.

The stock injectors have 195,000 on them now so I figure that's a pretty good life span!

I have the money now to do the injectors, all new glow plugs, and gpr, and have the chip reburned. Its more or less a time factor. My buddy works for international so he is going to assist me in changing em out (well really I will be handing him tools and doing whatever I can to make the job go smooth lol)

Thanks again everyone, this site couldn't be filled with a better group of people!
Dennis

 

Depends on what you're future plans are. The idea of a "Stage III" injector encompasses quite a large selection of injectors, typically hybrids, anywhere from 200cc on up and any sized nozzle. Likewise, not all Stage II's are the same either.

So to be realistic, you need to figure out your final goals, then build in that direction. It's basically stock now, but do you plan to keep it that way?

Now you can "detune" injectors until you add other mods to help you handle higher horsepower. I'm running 250/200 hybrids and right now I'm maxing out at about 300 horsepower. I plan to bump up the power to over 400hp, but some other things have popped up and interfered with my tuning, so I've spent precisely zero time in the past several weeks on the tuning. I will tell you this, it runs FAR better at 300 hp on these injectors than it ever did at 300 hp on stock split shot AD's.

No.

You will see a huge difference. Fuel systems, oil upgrades, etc help to make use of the full potential of injectors, but a simple injector swap with some tuning will completely change the way the truck runs, and you'll notice a big difference in performance right off the bat..... depending on the tuning of course.

Singles can run on split shot tuning, but it's a rough idle and a very touchy throttle. The larger you go with single shot injectors (meaning larger CC's and nozzle size), the more difficulty you'll have with it running on stock tuning. For example, with my injectors the truck barely even runs on stock tuning and is completely undrivable. I'm talking the slightest blip of the throttle when running stock tuning blows a huge cloud of smoke and makes my rear tires want to do a sideways dance.

A very good idea.

Something else you could consider is having a stock-like single shot tune burned to the PCM. That way if you decide to send the chip in again for tuning tweaks, you still have something you can drive with. Or (since you're going with PHP), you could get the Phoenix Flash option and burn tunes to the chip from your own computer. Bill can simply email them to you and you're set. That way you don't have to wait for reburns or worry about having the PCM reflashed.

 

Hey Curtis thanks for the reply. My goal is to basically have a truck that I can drive to and from work everyday, get decent mpg, have fun driving, have power when I am pulling something and be reliable.

I am not looking to make a race truck or anything of that nature and I don't plan on really dumping any more money into the truck after this, except for routine maintenance and whatever else pops up.

So I think if I upgrade to stage 1 single shot, and get my chip reburned I will probably be more then happy. Would I love to have a 500 hp 7.3 sitting in my driveway? HECK YA! But right now I think I will be happy with this.

Do you think I will notice a big difference with stage 1s and the chip reburn?

Thanks again
Dennis

 

If you don't plan on doing much more to the rig, Stage I's would be the way to go IMO. I didn't notice a huge power difference in my stage I's, but the idle is smother (more cackle though) and I am very happy with the power I am making at this point. I suffer from serious PMS though and I have a feeling as soon as I can afford to have Mr. Woods build me a trans that will hold up, things will begin changing a little more. Throw in a HPX while you're at it if you can afford it, sure helped quite things down on my motor. Good Luck with everything, you will definitely enjoy the new sticks.

 

Personally, I would skip the Stage I's and go to Stage II's with 100% nozzles. But that's just me.

Reason is that I have become a fan of larger nozzles, even if you don't plan to squeeze every last drop of fuel out of the injectors. With proper tuning that dials back the pulsewidth correctly, you can make better use of power with lower EGT's running larger nozzles.

 

Hey Curtis just asking here but what do you think the stage II W/100% will do as far as longevity with the stock charger? Reason I'm asking is that I've been advised by someone that I respect their opinion to stick with the stage I's for longevity sake.

To the OP I'm in the same boat 190k on injectors & going to get new ones sooner than later, if you get your inj. from Bill (PHP) he will burn your chip included in purchase. Will be real interested in your results.

 

Absolutely, when I went from stock injectors to Swamps Stage I's (175/146 single shots) I added 55 hp according to the dyno. In addition my stock HPOP can maintain the requested 3200psi injector control pressure when towing - so no more dreaded 1211 code/SES light. You will definitely increase the fun factor and towing performance of your rig.

Now, having said that and having the stage I's (w/stock nozzles) in my F-250 for about 4 years I would strongly consider Curtis' recomendation. I am heading this direction for my Excursion.

I would also recommed a regulated return when changing/upgrading injectors. If you are going to spend that much $ on the new setup a regulated return will protect that investment.

 

Keep pulsewidth in check, and you can run the exact same amount of power as bone stock injectors with bone stock tuning, or up to the max Stage II's can deliver, or anything in between.

There's no need to keep larger injectors running full open all the time, and no one ever says you have to max out every injector. With the injectors I run, there's no way I would max out the fuel they are capable of delivering. If I did right now, I'd end up with a window in the block in a matter of seconds.

A stock turbo will live just as long with Stage I's as it would with Stage II's, provided the tuning is done correctly.

I switched to a larger injector/nozzle combo because of the benefits of more useable power than I could ever get out of stock injectors, or even larger injectors with smaller or stock nozzles.... even though I'm not using these injectors to their full potential.

 

OK Thanks bud, I just have a lot of ?'s & been reading a lot of opinions on the subject.

 

Yep, there are lots of opinions you'll get.

For a long time it was almost taboo to run larger nozzles on a truck that did a lot of towing. It was like there was this stigma that larger nozzles were always smokey and always run higher EGT's. Even I believed it for a long time. Heck, you hear it enough, so it must be true... right?

I'm running basic mods (intake, exhaust), a 38r turbo, regulated return, and a 6.0L intercooler along with a BTS trans. With stock injectors running 300+ hp, I could reach 1250 degrees on the pyro on a WOT run. Now, I struggle to hit 900 on a WOT run. That's the difference in going from 3.8 ms of pulsewidth down to 1.75 ms at 3000 psi ICP.... injecting nearly the same amount of fuel in less than half the time.

Funny part is my tuning is far from complete, and it still runs better than it did with stock injectors.

 

I hear ya, some of the tuning stuff is starting to sink into my thick skull but I still wouldn't try what some of ya'll are doing w/your own tuning...lol

When the time comes I'm pretty confident Bill will be able to write the right tunes for what I'm looking to get.

Thanks for the info

 

Bill has been playing around with Stage II's on his test mule. Sounds like he's got a good tuning combo going with those injectors on a stock HPOP and turbo.

 

Hey guys thanks for all the replies. I still don't know exactly what I should do. The fact that if I buy the injectors from PHP, and he will reburn my chip makes a difference. Save myself a few hundred bucks to go towards all new glow plugs and relay.

Seems like I am stuck between going with Stage 1s or Stage 2s. I like the amount of power my truck has now and like I said I am not looking for a rocket ship. But if I could get more power and the same mpg out of stage 2s over Stage 1s then why not?

If Bill has been playing around with tuning Stage 2s for a stock turbo and fuel system then maybe I will give it a go and be the guinea pig. I am sure that whatever I go with will be better then stock so I don't have much to lose. I think I am going to try and get in touch with Bill and talk to him and see how he feels about it. If he can tune my TS 6 position the right way and the truck will run great, then why not?

Right now my truck runs kind of high EGTs but I think its because of the stock tuning on the chip. So I am hoping after the injectors and custom tunes it will tow a lot better and keep the EGTs down.

Thanks again for everyone's advice! You guys rock!

Dennis

 

Hey Dennis sorry for highjacking your thread but I know Curtis is doing his own tuning & he has tried several different things on his truck so I was interested in his take on the deal.
JMO but talking to Bill about what you want to do is exactly what I have in mind when I make my decision, I mean it seems best to get the tuners input (who would know better).
Please keep us posted on your results & again sorry for jumping on your thread.

 

If you have Bill (PHP) and Curtis (Pocket) helping you out - you'll be set up for success and getting it done right the first time.

P.S. Small world - I grew up on Long Island. Rocky Point on the North shore just East of Port Jefferson.

IMO you didn't hijack anything - you added to the discusion