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1968-Present E-Series Van/Cutaway/Chassis
Sway bar differences?

1968-Present E-Series Van/Cutaway/Chassis Econolines. E150, E250, E350, E450 and E550

Sway bar differences?

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Jun 30, 2011 | 07:26 AM

#1

ilateapex

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Sway bar differences?

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9; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> I have noticed a clunk under the van and found the front sway bar bushing on one side has been separated from the metal housing and slid up the bar. Now the bar just clunks in the hole in the axle. After starting to try and remove the sleeve in the axle and not having any immediate luck I decided to search on here for some ideas. What I ran across is that the Hellwig aftermarket bar mounts differently. I have been thinking of upgrading my front bar to help with the handling while towing (rear already done) and had been leaning to the Addco bar as it is 1 ¼” as opposed to the Hellwig which is 1 1/8”. Now with my racing experience I know that mounting location can have a lot to do with stiffness and with the Addco bar using the stock mounts and the Hellwig using alternate locations I am second guessing my choice of bar. Can anyone tell me how the Hellwig bar mounts the end links? Should I just forget the bushings and go straight for the improved bar? Is the aftermarket bar that much of an improvement?

Here is the van and specs:
1998 E350 HD Club Wagon (extended)
V-10
245/75/16 Load Range E tires
Bilstien shocks all around
Rear HD aftermarket sway bar (for motorhome chassis)
Front factory steering stabilizer

Thanks for any help or advise.

Michael

Last edited by ilateapex; Jun 30, 2011 at 07:30 AM. Reason: Spelling

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Old

Jul 1, 2011 | 05:28 PM

#2

jimbbski

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From: Chicago area

No direct experience but as a racer myself I know about how the length of the lever arms and mounting positions can effect performance.

I'd go with the thicker bar. You can always modify it. I would consider going to polyurthene end link bushings rather then the stock rubber if that's what you have to use with the Addco bar.

One the other side Hellwig makes a good sway bar as well. That's what I got when I bought one for the rear of my Ranger PU years ago.

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Old

Jul 2, 2011 | 05:17 AM

#3

JWA

Fleet Owner

Joined: Aug 2010

Posts: 21,253

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From: Reynoldsburg, Ohio

If anyone is interested in more from an actual Hellwig front and rear sway bar user I'll be glad to post a photo (or link) and offer my observations and thoughts about this very subject.

Sadly I've seen a few who know nothing of Hellwig bash them completely here, more from a lack of knowledge or understanding of the engineering concepts employed in their design.

Glad to do it if there's any real interest!

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Jul 2, 2011 | 08:42 AM

#4

ilateapex

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I am definitely interested in your first hand experience. From looking at the pictures in the instructions it seems the Hellwig has a shorter lever arm which increases stifness. Without the actuall measurements of both bars no real way to compute K (stifness) value. Of course you can get too stiff but not likly with the van.

Michael

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Jul 2, 2011 | 03:55 PM

#5

ilateapex

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I did some quick searching on the net and found a sway bar stiffness calculator. My stock sway bar is 1" solid and has a stiffness of 132 in/lbs. The Addco is 1.25" solid and has a stiffness of 322 in/lbs. Now looking at the instructions of the Hellwig and guesstimating that the lever arms are about 3.5" shorter and the width is the same at 1.125" solid it would have a stiffness of 321 in/lbs.

All this is assuming that the Addco is the same shape as the stock bar and that the Hellwig is the same shape but shorter lever arms due to the way it mounts. I do feel that the mounts of the Hellwig do add some spring to the lever arm by their design but it would seem that the stiffness is close to each other.

Now if someone with the Hellwig would get some measurements that would be great. We need the total width center to center to the lever arms, the perpendicular distance from the bar center to the end of the lever arm, and the diagonal distance from the bar center to end of lever arm (should be close to same measurement). Also need to confirm diameter.

Either way the outcome is, I can see how the aftermarket bar would help in the van handling better.

OH, and this is all for the front sway bar. I have already added a rear bar where one did not exist before.

Michael

Last edited by ilateapex; Jul 2, 2011 at 03:58 PM. Reason: add info.

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Jul 2, 2011 | 04:48 PM

#6

JWA

Fleet Owner

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From: Reynoldsburg, Ohio

I can understand the desire to have such specific dimensions and such but sorry to say I won't be going to those extremes. If I did we'd be comparing apples to oranges simply because between the three sway bars under discussion there are huge variations which don't really invite comparsion----IMHO anyway.

The Hellwig design is superior IMHO because of its attachement point further outboard on the I Beam, the shortened arm length as measured rearward from its 90* bend and most importantly the material from which its made. Diameter becomes somewhat irrelevant if the material properties aren't known.

I've tried using the OEM bar with urethane bushings to almost no noticable improvement. Adding the Hellwig front bar made huge differences that were immediately apparent.

I can still provide photos but all these measurements are bit more than necessary.

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Jul 3, 2011 | 03:18 PM

#7

ilateapex

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No problem. I am a numbers guy and like to compare the actual numbers as opposed to just experience that states it feels better. I would wager that most all sway bars are made from the same materials. I read where Hellwig uses 4140 chrome moly. Not an uncommon material. In doing some more looking at the Hellwig instructions and some looking under the van I would say that the calculated stiffness of the Hellwig is around 418 in/lbs giving the Hellwig every measurement advantage to make it stiffer. The problem is that it appears that the Hellwig mounts inboard more then the stock and Addco. This would mean that it would be less effective and therefore have to be much stiffer to accomplish the same thing as the stock or Addco.

Anyway, I got my bushings replaced with little fan fare so the stock is back on for now. I am leaning to the Addco when the time comes for this upgrade.

Michael

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