Now that's using the ol' bean, nothercrash. I had never thought about it in exactly that manner, but you could be on to some thing there.

Sorry to hear about your mechanical trouble, but glad you got it fixed. Keep us updated.

 

I have been lurking in the shadows as I continued research down this lane. I finished the books by Ozzie Freedom last week, and moved onto watching the video library of another guy that goes by zerofossilfuel and his designs of building various types of HHO cells.

After continuing research, I have come to the conclusion that HHO is a viable concept. However, I do not believe that the spiral electrode in a glass jar design is the best solution for our big trucks. Maybe a multi-cell system could be, but I'm not sure how effective. Zerofossilfuel designed some very interesting cells that showed larger amounts of HHO production at about the same volts/amps/watts as the w4g system, only these cells are plate designs. The reason was due to more efficient cell designs. Take a look at the batt-cell design. He put this design on a Briggs & Stratton 3hp lab test. The engine was driving a 160 amp alternator that was powering the cell (20 amp active load) and two sets of vehicle lights (20 amp passive load) and showed a net gain of run time on 3oz's of gasoline with load on HHO over 3oz's of gasoline without HHO with no load. The gain wasn't much, like 11 seconds, but if you think about it, that net gain run time would be exponential when using full tanks of gasoline.

I think that you are onto something as well with this vacuum idea. A buddy of mine and I have been talking about this concept and he came up with the idea of using a NOS plate under the carb to drop the HHO into. I thought this was a great idea since it would drop the HHO right into the center of intake, but I never thought about the vacuum leak concept. Definitely worth thinking about.

Anyway, zerofossilfuel also built a pulse width modulator and posted his plans up for free for anyone to go and build. I have to agree with him and say that these PWM do not change the hydrogen type that you produce, as Ozzie Freedom has suggested, but instead limit the amount of current the cell draws as it heats up, and pushes a maximum desired amount of current when they are cold. This helps to eliminate run away current, boil overs and one or two other not so good things as well as ensure total production as soon as you turn the key.

This is a link to zero's videos if your interested in watching them. For the most part, he goes through each step, describes in fairly good detail what hes doing, and shows how to find the efficiency of your cell. He doesn't have the batt-cell videos here, but you can find those on you tube as well as the B&S run time tests. All of his videos are numbered on youtube.

Zero's video vault archive - Zero's video archive
YouTube - ‪ZeroFossilFuel's Channel‬‏ - Zero's youtube channel

Hope this helps, and have a good one. A few more weeks and I will be able to join you in this research as well as start my other projects. WOOHOO!!!

 

Alright, so I read through you post, and watched the "Generator Run Time Tests"...

Firstly, I'd like to point out that the video provided by Zero Fossil Fuel, proves that this process will not work...

During the entire time of the videos, he does his testing COMPLETELY WRONG... and I can explain why...

When Zero Fossil Fuel runs his generator at a much richer mixture (in a gasoline/air ratio, the gasoline has increased) without the HHO, the test takes less time to conduct BECAUSE he's using MORE FUEL.

When Zero Fossil Fuel adds the HHO, he claims that he can move the choke to a much leaner mixture BECAUSE of the HHO. What I have just repeated from Zero Fossil Fuel is completely wrong with regards to his testing results. When you make the mixture leaner, you're adding LESS fuel to the mixture because you changed the choke settings. The addition of HHO therefore, CANNOT be considered conclusive results BECAUSE he changed the choke settings.

If Zero Fossil Fuel would have left the choke EXACTLY where it started at, his results would have been more conclusive. In a time-dependant relationship, you cannot change multiple variables, and draw a conclusion on only one of them (which he does... and claims that the addition of HHO allows us to consume less fuel..).

The reason he was consuming less fuel, was because he changed the choke settings.

I do not mean to toot my own horn here, but I think input is GREATLY needed for you guys who wish to test something similar to this in the near future.

Zero Fossil Fuel does not seem to understand the concept of power, efficiency, and fuel consumption...

The power an engine creates vs. it's efficiency (on a graph) is not a linear relationship. The power vs. efficiency relationship is often referred to as the "Power Curve" because it is simply that... a curve...

With his results, he is assuming that changing the choke settings DOES NOT affect the results he had taken, which in reality it does greatly.

The efficiency of his engine seems to run a bit more smoothly, which he concludes as an increase in efficiency, which is also wrong. You cannot conclude that the engine is running more efficiently when you do not have the power and efficiency results to back it up (calculations), and you are assuming that changing the choke settings has done nothing to change the system.

For this experiment that I have just witnessed, I'm very positive that the results are considered "busted" in terms of their conclusiveness.

For the end of my post, I'd love to quote a friend of mine because it's very fitting for these results...

"you can spit on me... just don't tell me it's raining"

 

SUBSCRIBED!!! I've been pondering this for a while now myself. I've been watching this guy here
Smacks Booster Hydroxy HHO Hydrogen Generator Dry Fuel Cell
He gives his design away on his original stainless steel designs, but pushes the use of MMO titanium plates instead. The titanium doesn't release the hex. chromium that SS does. He's out there pushing his stuff, even participated in the "Refresh Your World" stuff Pepsi does. He sells pre-assembled units but they are very expensive. It's a lot of stuff, but our dents have plenty of space. Diesels have their used cooking oil and crap, us gassers need an out, too! Go check him out!

 

Wanguy,
SUBSCRIBED!
I've been watching the HHO development. It may not be the fuel additive for gas engines as pointed out by Aaron71, but that doesn't mean it isn't beneficial to diesels!!! I believe Aaron71 is right when it comes to Zerofossilfuel's testing on a gas generator. He confounded the test variable (efficiency) by changing the choke.

We all know that diesel doesn't always burn (black smoke is unburnt fuel), and we know that propane and nitrous help the fuel to burn in diesels (thereby adding power!). So, why not experiment with adding HHO to the air intake and see if there are fuel improvements? It may act as a catalyst for improving the efficiency of burning Diesel simply because it is a gas that ignites quickly and the faster flamefront it creates will help heat and ignite the larger diesel particles that the injector didn't quite mistify finely enough to burn. Those larger unburnt particles results in exhaust particulates that the environmental people complain about when it comes to diesels, particulate pollution. So, running HHO as a 'CATALYST' in a compression ignition engine should be beneficial, and I would ALSO expect cleaner motor oil and exhaust as a result!

I'm definitely interested in your work. I agree that whatever type of cell is producing HHO, it must do so efficiently. Zerofossilfuel is an electronics engineer, and not a mechanical engineer or a fuels engineer. To make matters worse, he is stubborn and believes he is smarter than anyone offering an opinion/advice. So he plods along with his experiments based on his own lack of experience in engine theory and design. In the last year, he has given up on HHO for gas engines for lack of conclusive beneficial evidence, but he has contributed to efficient and reliable HHO production through his current limited pulse width driver circuit for HHO cells. They work so well, others have developed knock-offs at a much cheaper price on Ebay!

When HHO burns, it combines the two H molecules and one oxygen molecules in a stochiometric ratio. i don't buy the snake oil that some HHO people have been touting when burning HHO with gas in spark engines because the O2 sensor should see little change of O2 level after the burn when compared to burning gas. There shouldn't be "more oxygen" in the tailpipe because all the extra oxygen in the HHO gets burned by the extra Hydrogen!

Some people don't understand and are perhaps too quick to offer their opinion based on their limited knowledge. Some say Vegetable oil is bad for diesels, but I've got 40,000 mi on 100% veg oil for a total of 130,000 mi on my 99 7.3! I drive from OH to FL and back on as much diesel as I use to drive 15 mi to work, and back! So, it isn't that HHO is bad or Veg Oil is bad, but it is about "how to skin the cat" and if you need any advice, support...I'm not the only one that is here to help!

I do understand from "Smartscarecrow" (a good friend of Zerofossilfuels), and particularly that people are getting benefit (10-30% milage improvement) from HHO supplementation in compression ignition engines. The variance may be due to driving habits (e.g. performance driving with high CC injectors,...), and lack of sufficient efficiency of injector performance (perhaps due to injector fouling,...).

 

Huh, I thought this old thread had died out. Well, I have some theories going. I haven't been able to work on this project yet, but it is still there in the back of my mind.

Titanium would work much better than SS. It is FAR more conductive that SS, by something like 30%. It is also just as effective at repelling the problems of electrolysis as SS. 12"x12" plates can be bought at McMaster-Carr for relatively cheap. Then build a case and run with it. This would definately be more efficient for HHO generation. I have been looking for another metal that is more conductive as well as just as effective at repelling the problems with electrolysis.

I was speaking with my father, who also does not believe that anything like this is feasible, but he gave me a great idea on it. Lead acid batteries used for home independent power systems are bought with the acid separate from the battery and the owner is supposed to put the acid in when the battery is installed. Lead acid batteries also have multiple plates with minimal separation. These batteries are already prepped for the process, the case is pre-built, the positive and negative posts are present and all that is really needed is to drill a vent hole for the HHO.

There may be a problem with this concept and I haven't been able to research it to find out the answer. Been to busy with other things and since I'm not a chemist... what byproduct will be produced when using lead for the plates? If it is something horrible we don't want to do that. The solution would be to take the top off the battery and replace all the lead plates with titanium plates.

As for the power problem, everybody is relying on just their alternator to provide power. Now I know that several people will chime in as to why this wonuldnt work for one reason or another, BUT here is another idea that I am thinking about to solve the power problem (since the biggest argument is never being able to produce enough), but again, I am not a scientist or engineer. I am pulling from real world experience.

Get a set of inverters.I have seen people do it often on their trucks. They plug in a high power inverter to convert their 12V system to 120V so they can power a large air compressor. I used to build houses before I joined the Army, so I have first hand knowledge about how much power a large air compressor takes. It just might be possible using todays tech to produce enough power to push a largish system. I dont' know yet though. OR forgo this whole thing and simply install a dedicated secondary alternator. I don't have A/C in my truck, so I have the space and I don't think another alternator is going to pull much more than an A/C system anyway...

Anyway, I have to go back over the last couple pages of this thread. Does anybody know how nothercrash did on his experiments? And I gave up watching zerofossilfuel and his buddies. Too much conspiracy theory stuff going on over in that crowd.

Take care