A lot of the people who call this "snake oil" and claim it violates the rules of physics are all thinking people are running their cars solely on the hydrogen produced, which anyone will admit, is impossible with such a small cell. But to use it as a supplement, is not impossible.

It's already been proven that you can produce HHO from these cells, there is no doubt as to that happening. Whether or not it will improve mileage is what a lot of people doubt.

Since the advent of the internet anything "new" or especially new and cheap, gets nothing but scrutiny and the person that originally brings it up is promptly run out of whatever forum it was posted on. The problem I have with that is, to everyone that screams through their keyboards that it won't work, have they actually tried it? It's just like when you look at a kid that just graduated from Wyotech or UTI. He thinks he knows everything, because he's studied it in textbooks and had about 6 months of hands on training. But would you rather have someone who's been there/done that do your maintenance, or are you gonna trust the kid with the book knowledge? Basically what I'm getting at is before anyone goes screaming about the laws of thermodynamics or any other textbook knowledge, go out to Home Depot/Lowes, buy about $20 worth of stuff to build a cell, and run it for a couple of weeks and do your own test. If, after that it didn't work for you, say so, and give possible explanations as to why. If it did work, LET US KNOW!! Everyone is feeling the pinch at the pump, so everyone would love to hear that $20 worth of stuff can save you a couple bucks per fill up.

 

Oh, and I heard it works especially well on diesels since they don't have to maintain the stoichiometric Air/Fuel ratio of 14.7/1. A diesel engine will lean itself out with no pinging or detonation.

 

I have to say, I love the idea of running a car off of hydrogen. It is the one fuel that is endlessly renewable. Step 1: Split Water into HHO. Step 2: Combust the HHO to get back to Water. No polution.

Now the problem is that when Electrolysis is used for Step 1, the net power gain is negative. Even if it was zero you would still not notice any improvements because all that extra energy created by the HHO in the engine goes back into producing the HHO. That is not to mention the inefficiency of carrying around all that HHO generating machinery in the vehicle. Now there is the possibility that added HHO to the air/fuel mixture could produce a more efficient combustion, but the engine would have to be designed for that. And if there was a real payoff in doing that don't you think it would have been implemented by an auto manufacturer already. That industry is very competitive and if they could take a 30 mpg mid size car and give the user 60 mpg they would be doing it.

That is the reason auto manufactures are looking at different ways of producing hydrogen. For the best solution you need get the amount of energy the vehicle has to supply to produce the HHO to a minimum. So the best solution is to produce the hydrogen outside of the vehicle, pump it in and drive. The problem is hydrogen is very volatile. I would not want to be in an accident involving a car carrying a tank of hydrogen. If we did not have to worry about the volatility of hydrogen than there would already by cars on the road with tanks filled with hydrogen gas.

So the solution that auto makers are trying to come up with involves one of two things. Either making a tank that can hold hydrogen safely, or making a way to produce hydrogen from water that does not use electrolysis. Some of the ways of doing the second method is by using a catalyst that will assist in the splitting of water.

In the end, producing hydrogen in your current vehicle using electrolysis on the fly is never going to improve gas mileage. What it will do is give you something to focus on other than the price of gas.

 

No offense, but you are exactly the type I was talking about. You come in with the textbook answers of how it can't possibly work, but I have to ask: have YOU tried it? I personally haven't, so I can't argue one way or another with real world (not textbook) data. But considering how cheap it is to make, why not risk $20 and do a test? Even if you get a modest 5% bump in fuel economy, at the current local prices for me, that would be $2.20 saved per fill up. In just over 9 tanks of fuel the cell has paid for itself.

Again, I've never done it personally. Up until I bought my dent I never had a car I would modify like that for warranty reasons. That said I'm VERY careful not to be a nay-sayer about the HHO cells because, quite frankly, with so many different people on the net claiming anywhere from modest gains to doubling their mileage, I'd like to think there may be just a small kernel of truth somewhere in there.

Oh, and to address the "takes more energy than it creates" argument....the cell is powered by your vehicle electrical system, which is running all the time anyways. Especially the guys with the 3G alternator upgrade, chances are you have a few AMPS to spare. Hell, I only have the stock 60 AMP alternator and considering how few power amenities my truck has, I'd be willing to bet I have a few AMPS to spare.

And to the OP: Instead of using the steel wire another method I saw, which was cheap and supposedly effective was to use two stainless steel switchplates in the jar. You can get those for about a buck a piece at lowes. Apparently what they do is take some rough sandpaper to score the surface and make grooves for the bubbles to form on. Another big thing is people advocate the use of distilled water. Add a teaspoon or so of baking soda to it and supposedly less gunk forms than using plain old tap water.

Good luck to you on this! I'm eagerly awaiting test results!

 

With all due respect. The idea is not new and it has been tested. I experemented with it myself, short of actually hooking it up to a vehicle and decided that gains were probably unlikely based on "textbook" information.

Im all for trying things too, but this has been shown not to work in the real world.

Those few extra amps you speak of probably wont produce much more hydrogen than is already in the atmosphere.

But hey, if it works for you let us know. Maybe there is a missing piece of the puzzle waiting to be discovered.

 

By the way, did you see my link in a previous post? That guy tried it. Had one professionally installed even. They actually had a loss because of the additional draw on the electrical system.

The "textbook" response from the believers would be to dismiss him as a lap dog of the oil companies and/or the government.

 

Seriously guys, the guy is wanting to try something on his own...he said he had done some research, and was curious...there us no need to attack each other...he isn't threatening to steal anyone's trucks, just exploring possibilities....encourage and support, don't automatically shoot him down...

 

So you never actually hooked it up to a vehicle to see if it would work. Fair enough. You built one but didn't see the point in hooking it up. THAT I can understand.

Mistake one is having it professionally installed. Too much outlay for an experiment in my book. Nevermind the fact that you never know if the installer screwed it up. It's a good example, but it's only ONE example.

This is what I've been trying to say, but I guess my ********* is showing. I'm rooting for the guy to do this and report back. Everything I've read says if it's going to work it will be on carbeurated or diesel engines.

 

I think this will work,the guy on youtube with the f 150 had a real good set up and it working on the truck and how he got o2 exteders to lean out the gas from the computer to best use to hho,I would check this system out!! but how to make it work on a older truck would be the trick ,how to lean out the fuel and to keep the hydrogen going in,,,,,can,t wait

boo on the nay sayers ,,,this is what makes America great ,people that think outside the box
good luck and keep on keeping on

 

How many people thought Einstein , Tesla, or Alexander Bell were wrong in what they thought? PLENTY!!! But you know what? They never quit doing what they did and we became better off in the long run and all those that said to them that they couldn't do it.....well in the end they were the ones standing on the sidelines and wishing they would have said they conceived the idea themselves.

So I say encourage, experiment and try....if you fail you try again if you succeed then who knows, maybe we are setting in the presence of the very next genius inventor and get the basic chance of calling him a friend.

Those that never take a chance never gain anything and those that have taken a chance end up being called heroes....Our military, Firefighters and Police prove that everyday.

 

Precisely.

Look, guys, I did NOT intend for this to start a flame war, or even really to be a debate (though I never shy away from an intelligent one of those), this has been, and always will be, an experiment.

At it's very best, in a few weeks I'll be able to say that in my exact circumstances something has caused my fuel mileage to go up, and it seems to be related to the addition of the fuel cell, and SO FAR, in my exact circumstances, I have had no noticeable negative effects from the addition of the cell.

At it's worst, I will get no noticeable gain in mileage, my engine could run much much worse, and even blow itself up.

Those two things are allllll that I stepped out here claiming, nothing more, just to be clear.

I consider myself a scientist. On paper I am a college dropout with 1/4 of a plant science degree, but science, proof, and seeing for myself is the only way my mind works. I have a personal stake in this, I NEED to pay less for gas, and right or wrong, I have done some research, and been convinced that there is SOMETHING going on here with all this fuel cell stuff. As a scientist, I'm skeptical too! I'm the first to be skeptical, with everything! But skepticism goes both ways: A true skeptic is skeptical of the commonly doubted reasoning, AND of the commonly accepted "truth".

Remember, until the 15th century, it was the truth that the world was flat, and the sun revolved around us, and the proof was religion. Today that all seems silly, and people say, why didn't they just think about it? Use science? And the answer is that RELIGION WAS THE SCIENCE OF THEIR DAY! And as much as I love "science", what if in another 500 years it too goes the way of religion!? We could tomorrow discover some new way of thinking about our world, that satisfies more requirements of the way things are then science did (the same way science satisfied more than religion).

My point is this: You all are free and welcome to express your opinions. I think we all enjoy it, for or against. We all learn from it! But there is no need to get yourselves worked up, and to get personal. Some may be wrong, some may be right, just like in history, and on which side of the line you fall makes you no better or worse of a person. Let's just wait and see (and hope to god!), if there is something to this, and if there's not, you have my word, I'll be the first one to let everyone else know not to waste their time.

Things seem very certain and obvious until they're proven wrong. We can ALL identify with that. Unless there's someone out there reading that has never thought they knew what a problem with their truck was, and ended up broken down at the end of their own driveway the next day, only to do some more research and find out your truck has a part you didn't even know existed, then you know what I mean.

 

Ok, I didnt mean to come across as attacking so I apologize for that. If nothing else it is neat to try.

Im simply trying to temper enthusiasm here.

Could be the next light bulb and change the world. Could be the like cold fusion. Should work in theory, but just doesnt, or hasnt.

I expect pictures of your setup. Good luck and have fun.

 

Woooooo HOOOOOO!!! Preach On brother, Preach ON!!! Sounds good to me...I am in the OP corner, routing and cheering for him...anxiously awaiting the results, as well as a list of items needed (if it works) to install and run on my truck...

 

Ok, in the spirit of burying the hatchet I have one bit of advice and it sort of adds to something that was previously posted.

The electrode in the water (just the hydrogen side, cant remember if its + or -) should have as much surface area in contact with the water. Perhaps experement with some kind of winding, maybe some kind of screen which would have more surface area than a similar sized sheet of metal. I drew up some different design ideas back in the day. The more surface area, the more bubbles = more hydro. This likely increases draw, but I never tested that.

DO use distilled water instead of tap for your final setup, but experement with whatever. Also, salt or saline will increase your output considerably. Sea salt works great, but I saw mention of baking soda too, which may have the same effect. Just have to try it. With any kind of sodium added your electrodes will corrode much faster, so try to find an electrode design that you can duplicate and swap easily, not some extreme fabrication made from precious metals.

 

I am sorry if I came across as a nay sayer. I truly believe that hydrogen is going to be a very important fuel source in the future. The one problem I see is that producing it from water on the fly using electrolysis that uses electricity generated by the engine. That energy DOES NOT come for free just because your alternator is running. If there were no electrical appliances running in the car than there will be less load put on the engine by the alternator. The more amps you are pulling from the alternator the more load you are going to incur. Things like your radio, dash lights and interior lights put minimal load on the alternator and thus cause a negligible effect on your gas mileage. Things like headlights, large amplifiers and defrosters put a larger load on the alternator causing a decrease in gas mileage that can be measured.

I used to have an 800 watt amplifier with a sub in my car several years. When I was not using it I would get 2-3 extra MPG. That was huge when driving 350 miles to and from college. If your electrolysis setup is using more than a few amps your engine will have more strain on it.

Really what you need to do is determine what the problem is and find a solution. We know that hydrogen can be a better fuel than gasoline. You just need to figure out a way to produce it so that it costs you less to travel than just using gasoline. Once solution could be to produce the hydrogen from a wall outlet instead of using the vehicles electrical system. If you have access to free electricity that could be a nice option (although you have to store it). Another option would be to add some batteries to your vehicle that can be charged from an outlet that run the electrolysis. This way you can store the hydrogen as water until you need it.