Is "Top Oil" a real thing and does it need to be changed? If so is there a write up?

 

Are you refering to the HPOP reservoir oil.

 

Im talking about this.

YouTube - 7.3L LONGEVITY INJECTION TUNE UP 1 OF 4

I know most here dont like this guy but if there really is 3 quarts of unchanged oil in my truck I want at it.

 

Ya I've done it and it helped alot, just don't use any additives.

 

There's no actual need to do it. There's zero evidence that changing the HPOP oil will increase any engine longevity. It actually does absolutely nothing to how the engine runs. If anyone thinks they see a benefit, it's a placebo effect.

The only benefit is personal peace of mind of getting more of the old oil out. That's it. However, even using his method still does not clear out all of the old oil, just most of it.

Personally, I think it's a waste of time, and there aren't any actual benefits to be had.

 

I'm not picking a fight, am not a huge fan of Hewitt's (I'm indifferent), and know some people think he's kooky. But obviously he is making a very good living on being a diesel mechanic, and apparently knows something or he wouldn't have the customer base he does. It doesn't mean he doesn't have some good suggestions on maintenance.

Here's my point: How can you say it's a waste of time yet also say there is old oil in there (albeit you say it can't all be gotten out)? If there is "old oil" present anywhere, it means that oil has broken-down and has lost some of it's lubricity and effectiveness...and is therefore needing to be changed. There is a reason the oil is in there in the first place. Why wouldn't you want clean, fresh oil wherever it is present?

I have done this procedure on three separate vehicles, and the first time on all three, the HPOP oil was THICK and BLACK. On my Excursion, I run a 2 micron bypass filter, so even my "old oil" is closer to honey than black. The HPOP oil was nasty, to the point I couldn't believe it came out of my truck.

Does it need to be done every oil change? I doubt it. But I do think it is something that should be done occasionally. I will agree that you don't need to put in the ProLong treatment or any other additive.

Try it...you might be surprised what you see. The way I look at it is you have NOTHING TO LOSE, yet potential to gain. Why not try it once? It will cost you two or three quarts of oil and 30 minutes of your time, most of which is sitting around drinking a cold one while the engine runs for 5-10 minutes each. If you don't gain anything, then the placebo won't hurt you.

 

Seems to me if you wanted even MORE old oil out, then you could change it completely, run it for fifteen minutes, then change it completely again. That should get you some clean oil.

It only takes two filters and 28 quarts that way, but you change virtually every drop.......

I'm with Curtis on this one.

Pop

 

The main problem I see with "needing" to change out that "old, nasty" oil in the HPOP is that if it really does get all crappy, black, thick, then it really isn't getting circulated through the system and is just sitting there doing nothing. If that is the case what is the point in sucking it out of there? I also am with Curtis and Marv on this one.

 

Yes. Old nasty oil in the HPOP means there's probably something wrong going on there. Neither Ford nor International recommend changing out the top end oil.

 

Like I said, there is always old oil in there. It's true for every vehicle, regardless of whether it's gas or diesel.

A typical oil change on these trucks consists of about 15 quarts - give or take. Add to what is still left in the system, approximately 3 quarts, and you'll have a total engine capacity nearing 18 quarts.

Let's say you don't touch the HPOP oil, and you change out 15 quarts, leaving 3 quarts of old oil behind. It's going to mix with the 15 quarts of good oil. Now let's say you change out the HPOP oil. At best you're going to get about half of it, so now you're leaving behind 1 1/2 quarts. The rest still going to mix just the same.

Sure, more clean fresh oil is good for piece of mind, but there's plenty of high mileage PSD's that have NEVER had the HPOP oil changed. So evacuating another 1.5 quarts of old oil out of a total of 18 quarts has zero proof of additional longevity.

Furthermore, has anyone actually done oil studies regarding changing the HPOP oil? Change the oil, leave the HPOP oil in, and drive 3000 miles, then pull an oil sample. Then change the oil, change the HPOP oil, drive 3000 miles, then pull an oil sample. Will there be any significant difference?

My bet is no.

The HPOP oil is EXACTLY the same as the oil in the crankcase. There is ZERO difference. You perceived wrong.

Doubt me? Next time take oil samples and send them off. Take a sample from the crankcase, and take a sample from the HPOP reservoir. The results will come back identical. We've already had that experiment run on this forum.

Your HPOP oil is changed when you blip the throttle. Seriously, it circulates that fast. Simply at idle there will be just over 4 quarts of oil circulating through the HPOP in 60 seconds. The HPOP pumps 7.2cc's of oil every revolution. It spins at 85% engine speed. The average PSD idles at 680 RPM's. 946 cc's equals one quart. Do the math.

Ummmm, I've had my HPOP reservoir APART, drained the HPOP oil rails, etc. I've also run 4 different HPOP's. I know how it works. I also know what it's like to refill the HPOP system with all new oil. Makes zero difference in how the truck runs or the longevity of the oil.


So to be clear, I'm not saying that changing HPOP oil is bad. I'm saying it's a waste of time. You will not see any physical benefit from it. Also, I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I'm dispelling myths that seem to never die on this forum thanks to those stupid videos. The guy is full of misinformation, and it manifests itself on these forums in ways that completely defy actual PSD operation.

 

I change my HPOP oil several times a day, everytime I blip the throttle...lol

 

I wonder how much he charges his customers to perform a "top end" oil change?

Did you ever walk into a oil change place that didn't still push a universal 3000 mile OCI, disregarding all the evidence that it is a waste of time and resources in most cases?

Bernie Madoff made a very good living. I guess that makes him a good choice for investing money.

 

Curtis needs some reps for Post #10 above.

He said it well, and I completely agree with what he explained.

Hewett gets away with his statements because his YouTube audience (and apparently customers, too) haven't the understanding of this engine that some (but apparently not all) here do.

However, it's a good thing that the readers of this forum get a better education about this stuff in the long run.

Reps to ya', Pocket!

To succinctly answer your question, Trey, nope.

Pop

 

I agree with Curtis and Pop. No reason to change it, but if you want to, then do it. You will get a little more dirty oil out, and there's nothing wrong with that. Assuming you change the oil on a regular basis, it takes more time than it's worth. I have changed it before, but not again.

 

Well I didnt expect to start a heated conversation :O

Thanks though. Sounds like I'll just leave it be.