Which would you use in your truck?

1- A 4.6 with a T-45 5 speed.
Pros, mpgs could easily be 22+ mpg based on modern F150's
Cons, weak trans for a truck, and limited payload becouse of trans.

2- Modernized FE, highly massaged.
Pros I have one already, and I could build another to fit in easier later. Probily up to 20 mpgs hwy.
Cons, not much besides lack of bolt-on OD. Towing would be slow from a start, but fine as speed is achieved.

3- 460 I already have.
It has 9/9.3-1 compression, small chamber Dove C heads, forged pistons, main girdle crossmember, and a small comp cam for torque. I also have roller rockers, and a Weildand Stealth manifold for it too.
Pros- Cost, and durability. Plus I built it like an 455 buick similar to it years ago, and it got 20+mpg hwy in a 72 Electra. So the truck should be similar. Also AOD's can be bolted on cheaper. Plus it would tow just fine.
Cons-
Cons- If I get stuck in traffic it very well could go south fast.

Both the FE, and 460 would likely get a C6 with 2.7 rear gears. I have thought about using a TH350 behind the FE becouse its good enough, and doesn't kill off horsepower like a C6.

My 72 Electra was my third BB build, and it was highly detailed for such a basic engine. I polished the tops of the cast pistons the best I could, polished the chambers of the heads, polished exhaust ports, slightly cleaned up intake ports, and I ground down the stress risers on the rods till they were smooth. I ran comp 252H, and the whole motor was race balanced. I backed it back up by a T400 switch pitch with a 3.00 gear.

When it was broken in it would regularly get me 20 mpg hwy, and in my mixed driving usually around 17. So I think my 460 would be about the same becouse the truck is about the same size as an Electra. Plus I will pull apart the motor to clean it up since its been sitting for years, and detail it to the way I did the 455.

Also since 460's are appartly worth more for scrap I just get the feeling I should just run it. As I have the feeling no one will ever buy it. Or if they do I will get $500 for it.

 

I say 460 it is a good engine and has amazing torque for towing. The C-6 is one of the best transmissions ever made, this is what I have in mine. I don't watch MPG cause it is a toy so it just doesn't matter. You can easily build a 460 for about $2500 to $300 and get 400HP and still have great drive ability.

D

 

4.6 will tow just fine with some minor work. My buddy towed his boat, and a car hauler easily with his 4.6 and automatic OD tranny. You can find much better trannys to bolt behind the 4.6 if your stuck on a manual. A 5 speed will definitely allow you to run some lower gearing in the rear end but keep your RPMs down at cruise speed. Personally I think the 5.4 would be a better option if you want to go modern. Part of the thing that brings me back to these old trucks is the simplicity. By going with a modern motor, you give that up.

This is a grey area for me. I had a 352 with a 3 speed in my 65 when I got it. Tough as nails, wouldnt even stop running after I blew the #3 rod thru the side of the block. I also had a 390 w/ C6 in a '73 Trailer Special, and it would pull a house, but the mileage was horrible. My biggest complaint with the FE is the cost of parts. The engines themselves are dime a dozen, but if you want to do any performance type work, you pay thru the nose for the few parts there are out there for them. If you wanted to put the work into it, you can run just about any tranny behind the FE you want, just need the right adapter. Ford FE Transmission Adapters <--example

I personally feel this is the way to go. Good power, good availability of parts, good tranny selection. Run an OD trans, a set of 3.50ish gears, or something along those lines. Why do you say "go south fast"? Not enough cooling?

Ill throw out this other option for you. I like the SB Ford motors, and I had one in my '65 for a few years, until it just died out of the blue. Still havent taken the time to figure that out yet. They are a good pulling motor, especially if you get a 351W, and they are easy enough to get good power out of. The parts are cheap in comparison to 4.6's, FE's and 460's. And you have plenty of good tranny options.

 

Just a quick 2 cents here! With all of the trans adapters for the FE, and the fact it is a very reliable horse of an engine, a popular mod for the off roader's is to add the New Venture NV4500 5 speed, it is the OD trans used behind the Cummin's Diesel found in the Dodge trucks. it is also found in high torque GM applications too. What I have read about it is that it is very stout, and gives you modern gearing aka a useable 5 speed with over drive that will mate to pretty much any of the FE blocks with minor mods... aka adapter plate and clutch swap out! That gives you a lot of options on engine building, and a stout short throw 5 speed to match up. I have read a few articles from slick owners who have done the swap in less than a day! And quite happy with it too! Keep an eye on the local PYP for a Dodge Cummin's, with the 5 speed! I saw one recently going for $500.. I should have grabbed it at the time, but didn't know enough about it then, the adapter kit runs about $250, as does a new clutch, so you could be runnin' for around a grand! Just an option!!!

 

CGB,

I like the 5.4, but I can get a whole 03+ CV cheap if I wanna do a Mod so initially it would be a 4.6. Also I have never heard anything good about a 5.4 on MPG's. Not that its is horrable, but for the mpg comparison I rather have a geared Hemi. The 4.6 makes up for the lack of HP by comparison to my other motors by mpgs with a 5 speed. So it works in my mind as a good comprimise.

The Fe well there cheap, and they weigh favorabley to a SBF.

The more I look at my 460 in my moms garage I am just thinking damn the torpedo's I'll do it. I have so much thought into this motor, and I am positive with a couple of minor tweaks I learned on my Buick it will be a great all around motor. Not that it couldn't be done to a FE.

I have thought about the SBF or 5.0. Get a roller 5.0 with a T5 backing it. Do a good quality, and detailed re-build with a B303 cam. Probily it would be as good as a built 4.6 for less coin, and for a guy like me more flexable becouse of manifold selection is there for carbs. When the T5 lets loose your ready for a TKO upgrade.

All in all I am heavily leaning towards my 460 with some detailing, but I do love the look of the 4.6. I think it will end up coming down to what happens when I start batering for parts, and what I can do with some trades. If I can do the trades I will have a 4.6. If I can't I will use the FE in my truck, and start working on my 460 for my winter project.

 

Jet.

I have seen the NV4500, and it is a good possablity if I keep with FE power.

One thing I would have to do is do a hyd conversion to make shifting easier then the clutch mech I got now with 4 changes of direction.

The T5 or T45 would allow me to modify a cable conversion for smoother clutch action.

 

I put a 460 in my 64, the FE would be my next choice but the cost would be a huge factor in that update (those suckers are spendy) the late model is a great idea for efficiency but the conversion is an enormous project on its own. I even have a friend that makes engine mounts to install late model Ford engines into old model Fords, but then you either have to convert to some form of FI or spend a small fortune on a carb conversion (which is freaking awesome but expensive) That cost of 385 vs FE is what makes me decide. also depending on what you want to do, my honest next option would be a 335 series 400ci torquer block. not a lot of aftermarket parts for them but they can lay down the TQ on a budget.

 

The 4.6 in EFI trim with a T45 will give the fuel mileage you ask with as set of 3.73 gears. However you will not tow much with it due to limited torque.

The FE can be updated with a modern AOD (expensive) a NV or even a ranger splitter for a NP435. With he ranger you still have the fourth gear one to one ratio for towing and a pull of the lever gives you a .70 overdrive so you can still run tall gears like a 3.90 of even 4.10s. However unless you put EFI and an engine management system an really Tweak it you will not obtain the magical 20 you seek.

The 460 is a motor that you can laze around at 600 RPM or blast to 4500 for real fun. You can have AODE or a ZF for overdrive But you will need tall gears for towing. However in gas trim even with an overdrive it will not get close to the 20 you seek. Even in 472 CI EFI trim C6 and 2.75 gears in a short bed 64 i could only achieve a maximum of 18 MPG. This truck delivered it fully loaded hauling a 2 axle enclosed trailer across the country at an average speed of 58 MPH. It also ran up to 120 unladen quite easily with plenty of motor to go.

A motor you have not mentioned is the 300 six. This engine can be easily built to 300 Horse and provide huge amounts of torque. And deliver good fuel economy.

To sum it up.
4.9 Will get you close to 20 and provide gobs of torque.
4.6 Will get you to 20 mileage but lack of top end torque will be a issue for towing.
390 All torque but even with EFI the fuel mileage will not be there.
460 Great lazy motor with crap loads of torque but fuel mileage will not get there.

Garbz

 

basic common sense!!!! engine swap 2-3 grand, trans swap 700-1500 used with 3 grand for a new trans... totaled up potentially 6 grand 6 grand will buy you 1,500 gallons at $4 bucks per gallon...... 1500 gallons at 12 mpg is 18,000 miles. Is it really worth it? You bought a truck it is NOT an econo car! I rebuilt my FE and trimmed the weight.. aka put the fat lady on a diet to lose as much iron as possible. The rebuild with all of the trimmings was just under $5500, I am switching to narrower tires at my next tire change, but as it sit's now, I range between 14.1 and 15.9 mpg. which is better than my brother is getting with his 05 Toyota Tundra Pickup. and I have a lot more power too. You can debate the best options all day, but if you are trying to save money... engine swaps, tranny swaps, and rear end swaps don't net enough mileage to warrant the hassle! You are trying to get a cast iron barn door to be efficient, only massive body mods will improve the mileage. the frontal profile, is such that it creates tremendous parasitic, and profile drag, the F series is heavy, which is also why it last's so darned long, but weight creates drag also in the form of surface friction. So once you have reshaped your slick to look like a Lambo, lowered it and swapped all of the body work for Fiberglass, to drop the weight, You could have saved yourself a ton of bucks and bought a sports car to go along with your fat girl slick!!!

 

4.6 DOHC with a later Tremec 3550 trans. The trans isn't weak behind a truck as long as it has a fairly low gear ration 4.10 +.

You can pick up "B" head cobra (96-98) and early lincoln Mk engines for a few hundred bucks if you know where to find them

 

I already own the 460. It just needs new cam bearings from sitting.

I can get a whole CV cheap for a motor and electronics. Even seen a wrecked 2003 mustang once from $1500. 4.6, low miles, 5 speed and all. Just missing interior. I am still looking for the right program to control a CV computer.

The FE will just wait till it starts acting up becouse it will be just a quick swap.

Also how is 20mpg out of range? New trucks are huge compared to older trucks, and many will get right around 20 of not more. Plus typically they can weigh 1000 pounds more.

 

Pesky little thing called Physics gets in the way every time.

Slicks have the aerodynamic cross section of a brick. Even bricks can be forced through the atmospheric resistance with power, However there is a penalty in mileage.


Modern trucks use aerodynamics and computer control of the fuel and emissions to keep the engine in the optimum A/F ratio to obtain the mileage they do.

Garbz

 

I am not saying its more aerodynamic, but its frontal area is less. New trucks still have large grill openings as do old trucks, and new trucks run much taller. Thusly heavier rims and tires then old trucks. Rotational mass counts here too.

My Buick did 20, and I am personally convinced I can get that again. Even if the Buick had 2 small advantages. One is the a Buick had small heads compared to my Dove C heads or any 460 head minus the 80's models. 2 it has shaft rockers. Which have a slighly less weight factor at the valve. I upgraded the 460's rockers to roller which should help with this area.

On the Buick I ran a stock iron manifold which are not that great, but its Q-jet was pro built. The 460 has a stealth manifold which will help with torque, and I will probily use a pro-built Holley. Since I have 3.

The buick ran stock exhaust manifolds, and 2 1/2 inch exhaust. The 460 will get headers, and similar exhaust.

So in the end with similar bore stroke ratio I can resonabley hope for similar results. I may even try 2.5 gears from Currie if I can't find 2.70's from a Lincoln or what ever else may have it. Becouse the 460 should be able to handle it easily. Yes I won't be able to handle a 10,000 pound trailer with that gearing, but I could handle 5000 as far as the motor.

In the end if it gets 15 I will still cruise it. The 3 jobs I have interveiwed so far for are all with in 10 miles of my house. So mpg is less important to me then it was even just 3 months ago.

I found out that the way AC companies work is that they don't really service areas much beyond a city or 2 away becouse of regulations, and fees. So this to me is about a 20 mile max commute for many companies. The larger ones are not highering so I will be stuck into a local house hold ac gig if I can get picked up. Then in about a year I should have my own truck. Free gass. Maybe sooner if I get the one I have my fingers crossed over. Becouse they asked for my driving record.

 

A 460 will not get 20 mpg.

 

Most people divide the miles driven by gallons of fuel, and in that case no, not even close.

But if instead of that you multiply the miles driven by gallons of fuel you can get pretty close to that

But if your job is within 10 miles of your house how many years will it take to matter anyway?