towing: reading and worrying
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New User
Joined: Mar 2011
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towing: reading and worrying
I read a thread the other day an RV thread about towing 5th wheels and one of the things brought out was pulling with a 19,000 lb toyhauler (3912 KZ Inferno) which I got. From what I read, my GCRW is way to low to pull this thing legally. If I happen to get in an accident, my insurance could and probably would not cover it. I pulled it fine last year without even thinking about this or giving it a 2nd thought.
I built this truck up to be able to pull this thing in the first place.
If this is correct, I need to either upgrade to a F-450 or downsize campers (not happening). Got me, my wife and 3 kids. No way I will sacrifice safety.
I would like to get your guys opinion......Thanks!
2004 F-350 dually 6.0
Banks Six-Gun w/ IQ
Sinister EGR delete
BulletProof Air cooled oil cooler
MBRP exhaust
AFE intake
I built this truck up to be able to pull this thing in the first place.
If this is correct, I need to either upgrade to a F-450 or downsize campers (not happening). Got me, my wife and 3 kids. No way I will sacrifice safety.
I would like to get your guys opinion......Thanks!
2004 F-350 dually 6.0
Banks Six-Gun w/ IQ
Sinister EGR delete
BulletProof Air cooled oil cooler
MBRP exhaust
AFE intake
Laughing Gas
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 753
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From: Mesa,AZ
Don't know about your wt. issue but in AZ an F450 is considered commercial vehicle and the tag are outrageous. A friend has one that is I believe two years old and his tags are still 1500.00 a year. He tows a 47' horse trailer that sleeps 6.
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 8,241
Likes: 155
From: L.A. (Lower Alabama)
Ford's website has a towing guide that will list max # for your truck. Take your 5th wheel to the scales and get weight for each axle separately then drop the fiver and weigh the truck again. Use these "real" numbers to do the math. Check Combined Gross Weight and Rear Axle Weights to make sure you're under max on both. With the duals I don't think tires should be a problem.
Cargo Master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,975
Likes: 19
From: Archdale,N.C.
Maybe this will help.....
http://www.trailerlife.com/output.cfm?id=42175
http://www.trailerlife.com/images/el...wing_Guide.pdf
http://www.trailerlife.com/output.cfm?id=42175
http://www.trailerlife.com/images/el...wing_Guide.pdf
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,180
Likes: 669
From: Scio, OR
Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating for a 2004 with a 6.0L is 20k. The OP's truck is going to weigh at least 7,500, so there is little chance he's going to get under it.
As to the insurance, I don't know. I suppose they could try to deny a claim. The rating is a rating, it's not a law, however. It's what Ford recommends.
The most I've towed is 15k, and I really didn't feel unsafe. Very good trailer brakes and good stopping distance, etc. If the OP's trailer is well balanced and has good brakes and a good controller he's probably not towing unsafe. He might talk to his insurance company.
Be aware, though, that 19k of trailer and 7.5k of truck is 26.5k. In Oregon, anything over 26k requires a commercial drivers license, no matter what it is.
As to the insurance, I don't know. I suppose they could try to deny a claim. The rating is a rating, it's not a law, however. It's what Ford recommends.
The most I've towed is 15k, and I really didn't feel unsafe. Very good trailer brakes and good stopping distance, etc. If the OP's trailer is well balanced and has good brakes and a good controller he's probably not towing unsafe. He might talk to his insurance company.
Be aware, though, that 19k of trailer and 7.5k of truck is 26.5k. In Oregon, anything over 26k requires a commercial drivers license, no matter what it is.
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New User
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Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating for a 2004 with a 6.0L is 20k. The OP's truck is going to weigh at least 7,500, so there is little chance he's going to get under it.
As to the insurance, I don't know. I suppose they could try to deny a claim. The rating is a rating, it's not a law, however. It's what Ford recommends.
The most I've towed is 15k, and I really didn't feel unsafe. Very good trailer brakes and good stopping distance, etc. If the OP's trailer is well balanced and has good brakes and a good controller he's probably not towing unsafe. He might talk to his insurance company.
Be aware, though, that 19k of trailer and 7.5k of truck is 26.5k. In Oregon, anything over 26k requires a commercial drivers license, no matter what it is.
As to the insurance, I don't know. I suppose they could try to deny a claim. The rating is a rating, it's not a law, however. It's what Ford recommends.
The most I've towed is 15k, and I really didn't feel unsafe. Very good trailer brakes and good stopping distance, etc. If the OP's trailer is well balanced and has good brakes and a good controller he's probably not towing unsafe. He might talk to his insurance company.
Be aware, though, that 19k of trailer and 7.5k of truck is 26.5k. In Oregon, anything over 26k requires a commercial drivers license, no matter what it is.
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Senior User
Joined: Jun 2006
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Are you sure of the 20k combined weight. His dually will weight at least ~8K. Add family and fuel and your getting closer to 9K. I still find it very hard to believe Ford intended for these trucks to tow a max of ~11k lbs. This is the same issue I have with my 04 250. GVWR is 8800 and truck with full tank and family weighs about 8K. That leaves about 800 lbs for pin weight or about a 4000 pound max trailer assuming 20% pin load. I fail to believe Ford only designed my SD diesel to tow a 4k lb fifth wheel. Heck people are pulling that kind of weight with a crossover.
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,180
Likes: 669
From: Scio, OR
Yes. The GCVWR for a 2004 with a 6.0L is 20k, regardless of configuration. This is according to the Diesel Supplement manual that comes with the truck. In '05, Ford increased the size of the brakes, and increased the GCVWR.
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 419
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From: Iowa
I know in Iowa you can go into the DOT and request your licensed GCVWR truck rating to be ABOVE the max recommended by the manufacturer. I personally know of an F550 dually with a 16 ton (32k) GCVWR license. Also, the statement made earlier about the GCVWR over 26k needing a CDL is pretty standard.
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 8,241
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From: L.A. (Lower Alabama)
3912 KZ Inferno has a max gross of 19000. (14500+4500 payload). fresh/grey/black water tanks alone total 210 gal x 8.35 lbs per gallon is about 1700 lbs.How often are all your tanks full at the same time? Take it to the scales, you may be suprised at the difference between the stickers on your toy hauler and what is really behind your truck.
Here is the 2004 numbers. most say 13000 or so depending on transmission, gears etc.
https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/...04_default.asp
looking at the different years, by 2006 max trailer weight is up to 19200. also interesting that F350 numbers are used in a few places with the notation that F250/F350 numbers are within 100lbs of each other.
Here is the 2004 numbers. most say 13000 or so depending on transmission, gears etc.
https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/...04_default.asp
looking at the different years, by 2006 max trailer weight is up to 19200. also interesting that F350 numbers are used in a few places with the notation that F250/F350 numbers are within 100lbs of each other.
Last edited by Rusty Axlerod; Mar 17, 2011 at 08:16 PM. Reason: added link to guide
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Guys, thanks for all the input. I thought a f350 could pull anything. I guess it can, just not legally.
Spoke to soon earlier. Thought I had this thing running good. Now she doesnt start. Turns over fine. Just no firing. Even with a shot of starting fluid, she will not even change tones. Ran fine the day before.
This truck has become completely unreliable for me. I have dropped so much on upgrades and repairs, it is ridiculous. I'm done with it! Getting a 2008-2011 F-450 regardless and getting rid of this money pit.
Any ideas what may be the problem? FICM? Fuse? I just want it started so I can take it and trade it.
Spoke to soon earlier. Thought I had this thing running good. Now she doesnt start. Turns over fine. Just no firing. Even with a shot of starting fluid, she will not even change tones. Ran fine the day before.
This truck has become completely unreliable for me. I have dropped so much on upgrades and repairs, it is ridiculous. I'm done with it! Getting a 2008-2011 F-450 regardless and getting rid of this money pit.
Any ideas what may be the problem? FICM? Fuse? I just want it started so I can take it and trade it.
Junior User
Joined: Dec 2010
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Found this in the tech folder, on top of the 6.0 forum. A no-start checklist:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...condition.html
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...condition.html
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,937
Likes: 2,651
From: The Great State of Texas
Guys, thanks for all the input. I thought a f350 could pull anything. I guess it can, just not legally.
Spoke to soon earlier. Thought I had this thing running good. Now she doesnt start. Turns over fine. Just no firing. Even with a shot of starting fluid, she will not even change tones. Ran fine the day before.
This truck has become completely unreliable for me. I have dropped so much on upgrades and repairs, it is ridiculous. I'm done with it! Getting a 2008-2011 F-450 regardless and getting rid of this money pit.
Any ideas what may be the problem? FICM? Fuse? I just want it started so I can take it and trade it.
Spoke to soon earlier. Thought I had this thing running good. Now she doesnt start. Turns over fine. Just no firing. Even with a shot of starting fluid, she will not even change tones. Ran fine the day before.
This truck has become completely unreliable for me. I have dropped so much on upgrades and repairs, it is ridiculous. I'm done with it! Getting a 2008-2011 F-450 regardless and getting rid of this money pit.
Any ideas what may be the problem? FICM? Fuse? I just want it started so I can take it and trade it.
You dont' want to be in an accident with an overloaded truck. Your insurance will most likely not cover you and the other party involved could be the bigger issue.
I would recommend skipping the 08-10 with the 6.4 and go with the '11 with the 6.7. The 6.0 psd is hit or miss with reliability. I was just discussing the EGR topic with Tex25025 the other day and just this morning my son and I went to get some breakfast. On the way home after sitting at a light, the truck didn't want to move and start to blow white smoke, so I know how fustrating it can get.
Again I think the 6.7 is the way to go if you can no longer trust your truck, plus this will give you the opportunity to get a truck that will be legal to handle your trailer.
Good luck...