Natural gas
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Senior User
Joined: Oct 2010
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Natural gas
I'm a member of another forum in Pennsylvania related to the Marcellus shale exploration of natural gas, hopefully in the not to distant future the abundance of natural gas will be viable as a vehicle fuel, already natural gas pumps are being installed in some of the smaller stations in upstate Pa. And NY. They say they can sell it for the equivilent of $2.00 a gallon and this would be great for excursion owners. Just have to hope the government doesn't get involved and screw everything up as usual.
Freshman User
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 38
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From: Saylorsburg, PA
These natural gas wells in PA are destroying water for all individuals for the sake of a few individuals making money. Again, all about money and not the ramifications of their actions. Of course with contaminated ground water comes cancer clusters, dead streams, dead animals abound, not to mention the value of homes going further down in value. This is a BAD idea, and has not been regulated / examined properly. Lies are perpetrated by these companies to the individuals that are leasing their land, and they are starting to realize that they have been duped.
Anyone who thinks this is a good idea is delusional.
Anyone who thinks this is a good idea is delusional.
Junior User
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 64
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The natural gas drilling is a needed industry is the PA area and the United States. Instead of relying on oil from countries that openly state death to America we should be establishing ourselves as an independant nation able to provide our basic needs in the event of a worldwide event. During WW1 and 2 we were able to produce steel and other materials to protect our troops and our way of life.
As far a the drilling that is currently taking place the water tables and the gas pockets that companies are drawing from are a world apart. The natrual gas reserves are much deeper than the drinking water.
Perhaps if you would stop the '05 Chrysler T&C LX from leaking like a stuck pig a few less animals would die.
As far a the drilling that is currently taking place the water tables and the gas pockets that companies are drawing from are a world apart. The natrual gas reserves are much deeper than the drinking water.
Perhaps if you would stop the '05 Chrysler T&C LX from leaking like a stuck pig a few less animals would die.
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 277
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From: Midwest
not sure about the environmental ramifications of the drilling...but:
conversion of a gasoline powered vehicle to natural gas (or propane for that matter) is not cheap. Natural gas works under pressure unlike gasoline which works through flow. You need pressurized holdings tanks, fully pressurized fuel system etc. That type of conversion is only economically feasible if the alternative is much cheaper to run. Which it may not be. Natural gas and propane do not have the same BTU count as gasoline. Additionally the flashpoint is very different, so the burn characteristics are different. Basically you get less bang in the cylinder. Consequently the amount of fuel needed to achieve the same work is much more.
Lots of people have converted to propane (easier conversion) and found it cost more to run their vehicle in the long run.
conversion of a gasoline powered vehicle to natural gas (or propane for that matter) is not cheap. Natural gas works under pressure unlike gasoline which works through flow. You need pressurized holdings tanks, fully pressurized fuel system etc. That type of conversion is only economically feasible if the alternative is much cheaper to run. Which it may not be. Natural gas and propane do not have the same BTU count as gasoline. Additionally the flashpoint is very different, so the burn characteristics are different. Basically you get less bang in the cylinder. Consequently the amount of fuel needed to achieve the same work is much more.
Lots of people have converted to propane (easier conversion) and found it cost more to run their vehicle in the long run.
Junior User
Joined: Feb 2011
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I agree with you that the conversion to liquified natural gas or propane initally would not be cheap but with the natural gas reserves that we have in the US and if the goverment would get behind gas production it would go a long way to help the current ecconomic conditions. As with anything demand equals price. If the demand on foreign oil decreases the costs will drop. Developing an alternate fuel is a must.
If the fuel prices increase as predicted everyone will suffer.
If the fuel prices increase as predicted everyone will suffer.
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 277
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From: Midwest
this is the same argument the Brazilians used when converting to ethanol - we have lots of sugar, let's turn it into fuel so we don't have to buy foreign fuel. From a domestic security standpoint it is great.
The problem here in the good ole US of A is that we have market economies. NG and Propane are not feasible from a market standpoint for several reasons above. It would take dramatic intervention by the federal government to bring about those kind of changes. I for one do not trust our government to do anything but figure out a way to raise taxes and line their own pockets.
Hell - we still give energy credits to people who heat their houses with electricity rather than the NG we have!!
The problem here in the good ole US of A is that we have market economies. NG and Propane are not feasible from a market standpoint for several reasons above. It would take dramatic intervention by the federal government to bring about those kind of changes. I for one do not trust our government to do anything but figure out a way to raise taxes and line their own pockets.
Hell - we still give energy credits to people who heat their houses with electricity rather than the NG we have!!
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Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,632
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I saw a special on the Discovery Channel not long ago explaining this "new fuel" source. They use millions of gallons of water and chemicals to basically rape the land while harvesting this natural gas, and they leave behind a toxic zone not fit for human occupancy. Some residents showed their plumbing systems spitting out flames when they turned their water on and held a match nearby. Their ground water is basically useless now. I'm surprised it's even allowed.
Tuned
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 370
Likes: 3
From: SoCal
Buddy of mine does diesel to NG conversions for fleet vehicles here in CA. It's really big over here due to zero emissions. I guess companies/agencies get good incentives to do it. But the cost is ridiculous, generates way less power, is hard on engine components due to the lack of lubricity, and isn't efficient by any means. So I think why?? Because of emissions, plain and simple as that is the new trend. Who cares if you're using more resources. Another brilliant idea from nonsensical side.
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
From: Midwest
I saw a special on the Discovery Channel not long ago explaining this "new fuel" source. They use millions of gallons of water and chemicals to basically rape the land while harvesting this natural gas, and they leave behind a toxic zone not fit for human occupancy. Some residents showed their plumbing systems spitting out flames when they turned their water on and held a match nearby. Their ground water is basically useless now. I'm surprised it's even allowed.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,885
Likes: 25
From: Chino, California
Buddy of mine does diesel to NG conversions for fleet vehicles here in CA. It's really big over here due to zero emissions. I guess companies/agencies get good incentives to do it. But the cost is ridiculous, generates way less power, is hard on engine components due to the lack of lubricity, and isn't efficient by any means. So I think why?? Because of emissions, plain and simple as that is the new trend. Who cares if you're using more resources. Another brilliant idea from nonsensical side.
Tuned
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 370
Likes: 3
From: SoCal
ya that AB32 is such crap. welcome to the people's republic!
hey, just noticed you're in Chino - I'm in Rancho Cucamonga. Hello local!
