I just searched through some old post and couldnt find an answer to how you calculate the GCVWR. In the manual is says that it is determined by the manufacturer of both the tow vehicle and the trailer based on the model and options, etc. But it does not tell you how to calculate it.
Does anyone know how to find out what is legal based on the truck and trailer combination you have.
Years ago I got a nice ticket on my old Ford dump truck because I registered it for 15K but the gross weight on the door tag was only 11K. I know these truck will haul alot more than rated for but I would like to knwo what is legal

Thanks

 

A lot of this depends on the state you are in. Mine is registered for 38000 pounds due to the farm tags and it is perfectly legal in Texas. All fam tagged one tons here get that rating. I wouldn't try hauling a flat bed with 25 round bales on it to New Mexico though. They are super strict at the border crossings and ag inspection stations. You're owners manual should have the max gvwr and tow rating in it. I'm not sure at all how to figure gcvwr though. What state did you get busted in?

 

I am in PA. The cop told me that it doesnt matter what you license the vehicle for it can only carry what the manufacturer determines it can safely carry and that is the GVW on the cab plate.
On cab plate and the owners cards of the big truck I have driven they list combination weight but they dont list it on the smaller trucks.
I have a 93 dodge and it is the same thing, no combination weight on the door sticker or the owners card.
The owners book of this truck seems to reference a combination of springs, brakes, engine, that the truck has to calculate the GCWR but does not tell how to figure it.

 

I had a feeling it was Pa but I didn't want to offend anyone. We left there 10 years ago over junk just like this. It's not hard to get fed up with it. Actually the final straw for me was when my county told me I had to put a water meter on my well in the back yard and pay for my own water. I wish I could help you more. Sorry.

 

I heard they are starting to crack down on these small trucks with gooseneck trailers too. I move cars and some small equipment and will be right around 18K full of fuel. I would just kinda like to know if I am legal. I will check with a buddy of mine that works for Ford and see if he can find out for me.

 

Pay for your own water?

 

They sure did! There was legislation that year to require license plates on off road vehicles like tractors and 4 wheelers too but I don't think it passed. I hope not anyway. That state sure was pretty but very money hungry.

They are trying to do similar stuff here too with taking away water rights. It's getting bad.

 

A lot of specifics change from state to state. For instance in WV, the door tag is meaningless, they go specifically off what you register the vehicle for (taxes and all that).

As far as what the feds say: if you have a vehicle registered to you (an individual) or a farm, you can drive as much as 80,000 lbs (provided you conform to Federal Bridge law) without a CDL. The catch there is Bridge law; an F350 with a 40K trailer for example would probably not conform to bridge law.

If the vehicle towing (or being towed) does not fall into one of those two specific categories, the limit is calculated as follows:
Single vehicle: Manufacturer's GVWR (single vehicle) up to 26,000 lbs (or 26,000 lbs regardless of GVWR in some states like WV). This is probably why you got the ticket in the dump truck.
Combination Vehicle: GCVW (no R because R stands for rating) up to 26,000 with a maximum trailer gross weight of 14,000 lbs (trailers are rated by manufacturer only).
For example, if your tow vehicle weighed only 7,000 lbs empty (an F250), you can tow a trailer with a gross weight of 14,000 lbs. You'll notice though that combination only adds up to 21,000 lbs. However, if you were say, towing with a loaded 20,000 dump truck, the gross trailer weight would be limited to 6,000 lbs. Make sense?

For a business vehicle, any thing in excess of 26,000 or 14K trailer is CDL required. And believe me, you don't want to pay that fine!

Now that I've probably confused you further, I'll give you the simple answer. If you have a tow vehicle registered to you (or a farm), you can tow any trailer whose tongue weight (or tongue weight and vehicle payload) does not cause your tow vehicle to become over-loaded.

For instance, say you had a 14,000 lb goose neck trailer which has a tongue weight of 1,500 lbs (when properly loaded). 1,500 lbs would not cause a 250 (or 350) to have an overloaded axle per the manufacturer's nameplate rating. So your GCVW would be 14,000 + F250 so about 21,000 as we've already seen.

But, if you had a 20K TAG trailer with 3,000 lbs tongue weight (weird I know, but I have seen it). 3,000 lbs on the bumper of a 250 would cause the rear axle to be over-loaded, so you couldn't tow that trailer. But a 20K gooseneck would likely be back to 2,000 lbs tongue weight, and you'd be OK and your GCVW is 27K.

The maximum tongue weight and trailer gross weight are provided on the trailer nameplate. It is possible to have them altered, but you must contact your local DMV.

So, there really is no clear answer. Yes, Ford comes up with a tow rating for a truck. You'll see something like, 2011 F150 tow capacity of 11,230 lbs. I don't want to say that number is meaningless because it takes into account the structural design of the truck, and many other factors. But as far as registering a vehicle, it's pointless.

You know how much your trailer is rated for (because of the CDL laws, probably less than 14K), and you know how much your truck weighs empty. Add those two numbers together, and then add 1,000 lbs to account for fuel, passengers, etc. You'll be fine with that. Provided, the tongue weight of the trailer doesn't cause a truck axle to be overloaded.

My 2WD 250 has an empty weight of 6,500 lbs (or so the DMV told me). I have it registered to me personally for 24,000 lbs GCVW. This allows me to tow a trailer with a gross weight of 16,000 lbs plus a little buffer for fuel, junk in the truck, and what-not. Obviously, I still have to watch my axle weights on bigger trailers.

The information I've presented reflects only Federal guidelines. Any individual State or County may have more stringent laws. These are only the miminums! I highly recommend contacting your local DMV for State-specific information. Use this information at your own risk.

 

Thats the best explanation I have ever gotten, thanks.
As long as the tonge weight does not put either axle over it's limit, in theory I am legal, depending on the state.
When registering a pick up truck in PA I dont believe I have the option of telling them a combination weight, but I will check. I registered it at 9K but that is the truck weight. If I can change it I wonder how much extra I have to pay to get a combination rate on the registration.

I have a CDL but that should not matter in my personal truck?

 

That was really good! Thanks from here too!!!
I also have a CDL. Some of the rules do apply to us though. Down here at least I have to abide by the legal limits for drinking because of it. I don't drink though. Also all the hazmat rules apply to my pickup because I have that endorsement and I'm supposed to know better. Like if I'm carrying a 250 gallon tote of ag chemicals or whatever. A regular farmer without a class A is no problem. If I get pulled over with a class A then I better have the right placards up. Be careful with that up there too just in case.

 

Excellent explanation Diz!!

 

My understanding of CDL while using personal vehicle or RV:
You will be held accountable to the applicable standards for the vehicle. You are not required to fill out driving logs, scale in, no-tolerance DUI, etc. But I'm not certain. Of course big pickups are a grey area to say the least.

Since I've never had additional ratings, I'm not sure how hazmat or other things work. But it makes sense to me they'd hold you accountable to them. But you should know that most diesel and gasoline fuels are not considered to be significant (i.e. in large enough concentrations to require hazmat) under something like 100 gallons. So no one would be required to fly the placards, etc for a 50 gallon pickup tank. But again, check with your states DMV as they could have additional rules.

It's funny the rules for operating a passenger vehicle or 80K commercial truck are well defined. Everything else in between is a crap-shoot. And of course, there's no guarantee any police office who might pull you over has a clear understanding of the rules either.

Sadly, when I was crash coursing all this at work (we went from contracted hauling to in-house in three days when the contractor quit unexpectedly), I called the WV DMV three times and got three different answers. I finally ended reading through most of the FMCSA online to figure it all out.

Oh in case you were wondering, you can always de-rate a vehicle. For instance, it is perfectly legal to buy a 33K truck, register for 26K, then operate it without CDL.

And, air brakes on non-CDL trucks are legal without the endorsement. But operate a CDL truck with them and you'd better have that endorsement. What the hell sense does that make? Hopefully they don't catch that loophole anytime soon!

 

I should have added in my previous posts, towing more than 2 to 3 times your truck weight will be pretty scary at highway speeds, especially with a van trailer.

You should also check with your State about trailer brake requirements, annual inspections, and additional taxes. (Sorry for the double post, I found the edit button too late )

 

Someone told me the other day that the PA state troopers will write you a ticket for driving your truck around with your hitch in the receiver if you aren't towing a trailer!? What the....!?

Sorry a little bit off topic, but I am sure it won't be long until other states start to follow their lead and contribute to that sort of madness. That is a pretty blatant attempt to raise revenue if you ask me.

Resume discussion. Reps to Dizzy for the explanation in plain English!

 

Yes, it is illegal to have your trailer hitch sticking out of the back of the bumper when not in use in PA???