... who writes these things?
GCVW
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Joined: Jul 2009
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RV are exempt from CDl but other "personal" use vehicles are NOT exempt from CDL.
The catch there is Bridge law; an F350 with a 40K trailer for example would probably not conform to bridge law.
If the vehicle towing (or being towed) does not fall into one of those two specific categories, the limit is calculated as follows:
Single vehicle: Manufacturer's GVWR (single vehicle) up to 26,000 lbs (or 26,000 lbs regardless of GVWR in some states like WV). This is probably why you got the ticket in the dump truck.
Combination Vehicle: GCVW (no R because R stands for rating) up to 26,000 with a maximum trailer gross weight of 14,000 lbs (trailers are rated by manufacturer only).
For example, if your tow vehicle weighed only 7,000 lbs empty (an F250), you can tow a trailer with a gross weight of 14,000 lbs. You'll notice though that combination only adds up to 21,000 lbs. However, if you were say, towing with a loaded 20,000 dump truck, the gross trailer weight would be limited to 6,000 lbs. Make sense?
For a business vehicle, any thing in excess of 26,000 or 14K trailer is CDL required. And believe me, you don't want to pay that fine!
Now that I've probably confused you further, I'll give you the simple answer. If you have a tow vehicle registered to you (or a farm), you can tow any trailer whose tongue weight (or tongue weight and vehicle payload) does not cause your tow vehicle to become over-loaded.
For instance, say you had a 14,000 lb goose neck trailer which has a tongue weight of 1,500 lbs (when properly loaded). 1,500 lbs would not cause a 250 (or 350) to have an overloaded axle per the manufacturer's nameplate rating. So your GCVW would be 14,000 + F250 so about 21,000 as we've already seen.
But, if you had a 20K TAG trailer with 3,000 lbs tongue weight (weird I know, but I have seen it). 3,000 lbs on the bumper of a 250 would cause the rear axle to be over-loaded, so you couldn't tow that trailer. But a 20K gooseneck would likely be back to 2,000 lbs tongue weight, and you'd be OK and your GCVW is 27K.
The maximum tongue weight and trailer gross weight are provided on the trailer nameplate. It is possible to have them altered, but you must contact your local DMV.
So, there really is no clear answer. Yes, Ford comes up with a tow rating for a truck. You'll see something like, 2011 F150 tow capacity of 11,230 lbs. I don't want to say that number is meaningless because it takes into account the structural design of the truck, and many other factors. But as far as registering a vehicle, it's pointless.
You know how much your trailer is rated for (because of the CDL laws, probably less than 14K), and you know how much your truck weighs empty. Add those two numbers together, and then add 1,000 lbs to account for fuel, passengers, etc. You'll be fine with that. Provided, the tongue weight of the trailer doesn't cause a truck axle to be overloaded.
My 2WD 250 has an empty weight of 6,500 lbs (or so the DMV told me). I have it registered to me personally for 24,000 lbs GCVW. This allows me to tow a trailer with a gross weight of 16,000 lbs plus a little buffer for fuel, junk in the truck, and what-not. Obviously, I still have to watch my axle weights on bigger trailers.
The information I've presented reflects only Federal guidelines. Any individual State or County may have more stringent laws. These are only the miminums! I highly recommend contacting your local DMV for State-specific information. Use this information at your own risk.
If the vehicle towing (or being towed) does not fall into one of those two specific categories, the limit is calculated as follows:
Single vehicle: Manufacturer's GVWR (single vehicle) up to 26,000 lbs (or 26,000 lbs regardless of GVWR in some states like WV). This is probably why you got the ticket in the dump truck.
Combination Vehicle: GCVW (no R because R stands for rating) up to 26,000 with a maximum trailer gross weight of 14,000 lbs (trailers are rated by manufacturer only).
For example, if your tow vehicle weighed only 7,000 lbs empty (an F250), you can tow a trailer with a gross weight of 14,000 lbs. You'll notice though that combination only adds up to 21,000 lbs. However, if you were say, towing with a loaded 20,000 dump truck, the gross trailer weight would be limited to 6,000 lbs. Make sense?
For a business vehicle, any thing in excess of 26,000 or 14K trailer is CDL required. And believe me, you don't want to pay that fine!
Now that I've probably confused you further, I'll give you the simple answer. If you have a tow vehicle registered to you (or a farm), you can tow any trailer whose tongue weight (or tongue weight and vehicle payload) does not cause your tow vehicle to become over-loaded.
For instance, say you had a 14,000 lb goose neck trailer which has a tongue weight of 1,500 lbs (when properly loaded). 1,500 lbs would not cause a 250 (or 350) to have an overloaded axle per the manufacturer's nameplate rating. So your GCVW would be 14,000 + F250 so about 21,000 as we've already seen.
But, if you had a 20K TAG trailer with 3,000 lbs tongue weight (weird I know, but I have seen it). 3,000 lbs on the bumper of a 250 would cause the rear axle to be over-loaded, so you couldn't tow that trailer. But a 20K gooseneck would likely be back to 2,000 lbs tongue weight, and you'd be OK and your GCVW is 27K.
The maximum tongue weight and trailer gross weight are provided on the trailer nameplate. It is possible to have them altered, but you must contact your local DMV.
So, there really is no clear answer. Yes, Ford comes up with a tow rating for a truck. You'll see something like, 2011 F150 tow capacity of 11,230 lbs. I don't want to say that number is meaningless because it takes into account the structural design of the truck, and many other factors. But as far as registering a vehicle, it's pointless.
You know how much your trailer is rated for (because of the CDL laws, probably less than 14K), and you know how much your truck weighs empty. Add those two numbers together, and then add 1,000 lbs to account for fuel, passengers, etc. You'll be fine with that. Provided, the tongue weight of the trailer doesn't cause a truck axle to be overloaded.
My 2WD 250 has an empty weight of 6,500 lbs (or so the DMV told me). I have it registered to me personally for 24,000 lbs GCVW. This allows me to tow a trailer with a gross weight of 16,000 lbs plus a little buffer for fuel, junk in the truck, and what-not. Obviously, I still have to watch my axle weights on bigger trailers.
The information I've presented reflects only Federal guidelines. Any individual State or County may have more stringent laws. These are only the miminums! I highly recommend contacting your local DMV for State-specific information. Use this information at your own risk.
Senior User
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Oh in case you were wondering, you can always de-rate a vehicle. For instance, it is perfectly legal to buy a 33K truck, register for 26K, then operate it without CDL.
And, air brakes on non-CDL trucks are legal without the endorsement. But operate a CDL truck with them and you'd better have that endorsement. What the hell sense does that make? Hopefully they don't catch that loophole anytime soon!
Yes you can derate a truck but not with the registration and there is no such thing as an air brake endorsement.
Posting Guru
Joined: Nov 2007
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From: West Texas
There is here. My license has air brake and hazmat endorsements on it. It did when I had a Ca license too. But it is also true here that farmers run big trucks legally without a class A. There are specific rules for it though. It's the same farm tags I have but they have to have not for hire signs on the doors and trailer and some other stuff. I'm not sure what they have to go through for inspections. My farm tags on the truck is like 40 bucks or so and trailers are all just 8 dollars a year. No tax on them. The lady at the DMV when I register my trucks for the first time always tells me 38000 pounds is standard for one ton trucks and if I want to keep it there or lower it. I don't even know why she asks because it still costs the same regardless. I just leave it with wherever they put it.
Back to the air brake thing, a friend of mine that was driving a short bus at a local school on a class B license got assigned to a regular bus with air brakes last year. He had to go back for the air brake test and endorsement. He ended up with a class A with air brakes. THis all goes to the type of vehicle you take your test with. I took mine in a big tanker truck hauling fuel. I had to include air brakes and hazmat procedures in my walk around inspection. He took his test in a short bus with hydraulic brakes. He could have had a class A with it but he chose class B instead. Now that he's driving air brakes he has to have that part on the test and demonstrate knowledge on the walkaround.
Back to the air brake thing, a friend of mine that was driving a short bus at a local school on a class B license got assigned to a regular bus with air brakes last year. He had to go back for the air brake test and endorsement. He ended up with a class A with air brakes. THis all goes to the type of vehicle you take your test with. I took mine in a big tanker truck hauling fuel. I had to include air brakes and hazmat procedures in my walk around inspection. He took his test in a short bus with hydraulic brakes. He could have had a class A with it but he chose class B instead. Now that he's driving air brakes he has to have that part on the test and demonstrate knowledge on the walkaround.
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NOPE.
NO it doesn't.
NO such thing.
You can't get a class B testing in a short bus. You could get a class A but you would have to be towing enough trailer to put the CGVWR over 26k.
NO it doesn't.
NO such thing.
You can't get a class B testing in a short bus. You could get a class A but you would have to be towing enough trailer to put the CGVWR over 26k.
Posting Guru
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,158
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From: West Texas
Glad to have such an expert that can tell me what it says on the back of my license without seeing it.
If you drive a commercial motor vehicle with air brakes, you will need a CDL (Commercial Driver's License) with an air brakes endorsement. If a driver fails the air brake section on the CDL test, the driver is issued a restriction and cannot legally drive a commercial motor vehicle equipped with air brakes.
Source:
U.S. Department of Transportation: Federal Motor Carrier Safety Adminstration
Read more: Is a CDL required for air brakes? | Answerbag http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2048998#ixzz1Enk2vuPw
Not having the air brake restriction is the exact same thing as having the "endorsement" as far as Texas and any other state is concerned. It certifies that you passed all the air brake portions of the test and is in fact an endorsement.
If you drive a commercial motor vehicle with air brakes, you will need a CDL (Commercial Driver's License) with an air brakes endorsement. If a driver fails the air brake section on the CDL test, the driver is issued a restriction and cannot legally drive a commercial motor vehicle equipped with air brakes.
Source:
U.S. Department of Transportation: Federal Motor Carrier Safety Adminstration
Read more: Is a CDL required for air brakes? | Answerbag http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2048998#ixzz1Enk2vuPw
Not having the air brake restriction is the exact same thing as having the "endorsement" as far as Texas and any other state is concerned. It certifies that you passed all the air brake portions of the test and is in fact an endorsement.
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2009
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But lets say you do have it. What letter represents the "air brake endorsement"?
ps I don't doubt one bit that you are licensed to operate a CMV with air brakes. It is that there is no such thing as an air brake endorsement. If you can't drive a CMV with air brakes you get a air brake restriction.
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Senior User
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 396
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Glad to have such an expert that can tell me what it says on the back of my license without seeing it.
If you drive a commercial motor vehicle with air brakes, you will need a CDL (Commercial Driver's License) with an air brakes endorsement. If a driver fails the air brake section on the CDL test, the driver is issued a restriction and cannot legally drive a commercial motor vehicle equipped with air brakes.
Source:
U.S. Department of Transportation: Federal Motor Carrier Safety Adminstration
Read more: Is a CDL required for air brakes? | Answerbag Is a CDL required for air brakes? | Answerbag
Not having the air brake restriction is the exact same thing as having the "endorsement" as far as Texas and any other state is concerned. It certifies that you passed all the air brake portions of the test and is in fact an endorsement.
If you drive a commercial motor vehicle with air brakes, you will need a CDL (Commercial Driver's License) with an air brakes endorsement. If a driver fails the air brake section on the CDL test, the driver is issued a restriction and cannot legally drive a commercial motor vehicle equipped with air brakes.
Source:
U.S. Department of Transportation: Federal Motor Carrier Safety Adminstration
Read more: Is a CDL required for air brakes? | Answerbag Is a CDL required for air brakes? | Answerbag
Not having the air brake restriction is the exact same thing as having the "endorsement" as far as Texas and any other state is concerned. It certifies that you passed all the air brake portions of the test and is in fact an endorsement.
Texas;
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/interne...orms/DL-7C.pdf
FMCSA;
Restrictions. - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
Tuned
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 462
Likes: 13
From: Lovettsville, VA
I'm not sure about other States, but in WV if you attempt the road test for a CDL on a vehicle which does not have air brakes, they stamp your license with the endorsement "L." That means (if you read the back of the CDL) that you are NOT permitted to operate a CV with air brakes.
It is possible then, to obtain a CDL with which you will not be allowed to drive a vehicle with air brakes. In fact, air brakes (along with hazmat, over size, over weight, etc) are a separate knowledge test altogether.
And...If you don't like my explanation, or believe any part of it to be errant, please explain. That is my understanding of the rules. As I have said in a previous post, the rules for large pickup trucks and trailers are a bit sketchy.
It is possible then, to obtain a CDL with which you will not be allowed to drive a vehicle with air brakes. In fact, air brakes (along with hazmat, over size, over weight, etc) are a separate knowledge test altogether.
And...If you don't like my explanation, or believe any part of it to be errant, please explain. That is my understanding of the rules. As I have said in a previous post, the rules for large pickup trucks and trailers are a bit sketchy.
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I believe that there are three classes of CDL, A-B-C.
The A endorsement is for any commercial vehicle up to 80K in any combination (truck and trailer or just truck) with air brakes. To get the A cdl you need to pass a section in the test for air brakes. I dont know of any vehicle on the road today that has a gross registered weight of 80K and does not have air brakes. On the back of my CDL is just lists the A endorsement.
B and C licenses limited a driver in the weight you haul, the combination of truck and trailer, and if you take the air brake test or not. The B and C license is for the drivers who drive straight trucks at or above 26K registered weight and the dump truck and trailer driver who is not registered to the full 80K. Both of these types of vehicles can operate on both air brakes or hydraulic brakes.
I am not exactly sure how it reads on the back of the license but it will state something to the effect "no airbrakes" or "with airbrakes" with a maximum allowable REGISTERED gross weight of the vehicles you can drive.
Hope that clears it up some.
The A endorsement is for any commercial vehicle up to 80K in any combination (truck and trailer or just truck) with air brakes. To get the A cdl you need to pass a section in the test for air brakes. I dont know of any vehicle on the road today that has a gross registered weight of 80K and does not have air brakes. On the back of my CDL is just lists the A endorsement.
B and C licenses limited a driver in the weight you haul, the combination of truck and trailer, and if you take the air brake test or not. The B and C license is for the drivers who drive straight trucks at or above 26K registered weight and the dump truck and trailer driver who is not registered to the full 80K. Both of these types of vehicles can operate on both air brakes or hydraulic brakes.
I am not exactly sure how it reads on the back of the license but it will state something to the effect "no airbrakes" or "with airbrakes" with a maximum allowable REGISTERED gross weight of the vehicles you can drive.
Hope that clears it up some.
Thread Starter
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Junior User
Joined: Feb 2011
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The only endorsement on my license is an X for hazmat.
Completley off topic, they now require me to get finger printed and a background check AT MY COST to keep this endorsement on my license. When I re-newed my PA license last year it cost me $96.00.
Gotta love Pa RRanch
Completley off topic, they now require me to get finger printed and a background check AT MY COST to keep this endorsement on my license. When I re-newed my PA license last year it cost me $96.00.
Gotta love Pa RRanch
Thread Starter
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Junior User
Joined: Feb 2011
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I just registered this ford truck and the first thing the notary asked me is what I wanted the registration for. In PA you can register a vehicle for less than the manufactures GVWR if you do not intend to use it to that capacity.
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,168
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From: San Ramon Ca.
Well this went from something useful to another argument real fast.Crete if there is any actual useful information you have to add please do so!
Nitpicking about verbiage is not very useful.
Sheesh!
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Joined: Jul 2009
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This does not vary from state to state.
This is true except for the fact that it is a restriction not an endorsement. I guess some think this is "nit picking verbage" but there is a big difference. Similar to the difference between adding and subtracting.
This is true except for the fact that it is a restriction not an endorsement. I guess some think this is "nit picking verbage" but there is a big difference. Similar to the difference between adding and subtracting.