what advantage or dis advantage is the differance between stage 1 single shot and the factory split shot other than less oil required for ss and from what i read about 40 horse power . do you give up any durability or reliability to gain the extra power? how is idel affected? and i realize that you can get bigger with stage 2 /3 hybrid i am mainly talking about a stage one single shot compaired to a stock split shot. i am wondering if the money spent on the tuning is worth the differance. as my oil system has kept up ok for 260 k mi so far. thanks

 

Singles are fine -- they were used until 97 in the stock motors. Splits are quieter than singles, but singles use all the oil & fuel for the main injection event instead of stealing a little for the pilot shot. That's why they make more power -- but they're also more efficient. You'll get better mileage given the same driving conditions too. I have a best of 22 mpg on my hybrids. Previous best was a little over 19 on stock splits.

 

That's why they make more power -- but they're also more efficient. You'll get better mileage given the same driving conditions too. I have a best of 22 mpg on my hybrids. Previous best was a little over 19 on stock splits.[/quote]

joe, i see your running 238cc inj now. my stock inj are 130 ab with that much more fuel im sure you have alot more air as well . i would think more power and less mileage . so am iright to think that you can have more air and fuel ready and it comes to the "tuning" to put it to the flywheel . because today i calc around 17 mpg. on the last tank mostly hwy. so i guess by going with the big 238s you can always back im off to get better econ. than switch the tune and hammer down 1/4 mi. i am still learning the basics of these motors they are alot differant than the gas stuff ive fixed al my life. thanks for input.

 

You're exactly right. Tuning can make hybrids run like stock, or *****-to-the-wall all out.... To be honest, I run around in my hottest tune all the time. Never change it unless I'm pulling something. I just like the way the truck runs, shifts, sounds, and feels with that tune. Nothing wrong with the others really, just my preference. And I control it with my right foot -- I never hammer it until it's warmed up, and even then I watch my EGTs very closely. With that much fuel and "only" a van turbo, I have to be careful.

 

I thought running the "hot" tune constantly would damage the injectors or hpop. Due to the psi the system endures. I would love to run my "hot" tune all the time,much better fuel mileage.

 

You can't damage the HPOP from "too much pressure". The HPOP pumps the same volume of oil per pump revolution. That oil is going to go somewhere.... either to the injectors, or dumped past the IPR.

As for the injectors.... unless your tuning was written by monkeys, it's not going to mess up the injectors from pressure on a hot tune.

What IS the actual issue with running a high HP "hot" tune is.... heat. If a tune calls for a lot of fueling, that's what you'll get. The end result is higher EGT's. If the fueling is too much to control, you'll have to back down to a tune that is calling for much less fuel.

 

Hey Joe what do mean when you said "with that much fuel and only a van turbo, I have to be careful?

I plan to go with hybrids with with upgraded stock turbo. But still thinking about it.

 

[quote=Izzy351;9904956]You're exactly right. Tuning can make hybrids run like stock, or *****-to-the-wall all out....

thanks joe , it been myexperience in the past with building race and street strip type gas motors you start breaking stuff and you have to much farther into the motor with cams / head work / valves / rockers / tuning carbs / ect... and it is a comprimize between power and relibilty . i am power hungry and have built every thing ive ever had from my first car a smallblock vega i know i just dated myself . but was wanting to keep this truck ultra relible and mabe i can have both huh? thats why i was thinkin stage ones sorta like a smaller cam or less comp not so much strain on other things . but mabey im thinkin wrong . what would you have to do to stock turbo to support a stage 1 -- 2 -- 3 hybrid ?besides lots of clean air and better exhaust . thanks

 

The van turbo doesn't move nearly enough air for these injectors. I got the turbo first and was intending on getting 200cc hybrids, but I happened on a decent deal on these, so I snapped them up. So what happens is that I'm over-fueling on my hot tune if I hammer it, so with not enough air, I get black smoke and high EGTs. That's what I have to be careful about.

[quote=429 f-100;9905804]First, you don't need a cam or any valve train mods with a small injector upgrade. You can easily go up to small hybrids without it. I'm to the point where I need more air and at least valve springs, but for now, it is what it is. My problem is that I'm up against the max at what PMRs will hold together at, so to take full advantage of the injectors I have, I need to do some bottom end work as well as springs and bigger turbo. You should be able to support up to Stage 2s with a mod'ed stock turbo. Stock turbo with WW or ATS compressor housing and 1.0 a/r exhaust housing will be fine with stage 1 injectors. You'd be pushing that combo with Stage 2s, so I'd go at least with a van turbo (it has an even larger 1.15 a/r exhaust housing). I would think a max of 200cc hybrids with 30% nozzles would be okay with the van turbo. That will get you easily in the low 400 rwhp range... Hope that helps.

 

Haha! Joe, remember explaining all this to me awhile back?

To the OP... 400HP seems to be the threshold between reliability and the edge. Your eally don't have to mod much of the motor except for maybe valve springs... these engines are built like the gassers should be IMO. 2's will put you at around 400HP towing and 425HP-ish on the "hot" tunes... hybrids are nice, but I wouldn't want them because while I could certainly tune them down, knowing I had the ability to go hotter would be too tempting for me and eventually I'd give in. I, like you, want more power without sacrificing the reliability the 7.3L is known for... we're not holding onto our older trucks for no reason!

 

Joe isn't a moded stock turbo close to a van turbo? Stock turbo with WW and 1.15 A/R housing, would that be enough air for Stage 2's or am I pushing that turbo to its max? I'm trying to stay away from getting a 38r,just trying to go with the lesser route. Well who knows I just might get a 38r.

 

You should be able to support up to Stage 2s with a mod'ed stock turbo. Stock turbo with WW or ATS compressor housing and 1.0 a/r exhaust housing will be fine with stage 1 injectors. You'd be pushing that combo with Stage 2s, so I'd go at least with a van turbo (it has an even larger 1.15 a/r exhaust housing). I would think a max of 200cc hybrids with 30% nozzles would be okay with the van turbo. That will get you easily in the low 400 rwhp range... Hope that helps.[/quote]

joe, thanks ques-"moded stock tubo with ww". i have the ww in my early 99 stock . and it looks good no dusting and is tight what other things are done to the housing if any in this . dose the van turbo sit on the same pedistal? same size all connections? whats the advantage of bigger exhaust side more boost or better flow of exhaust ? thanks for your knowlage im getting a handle on these comp controled motors thanks

 

To the OP... 400HP seems to be the threshold between reliability and the edge. Your eally don't have to mod much of the motor except for maybe valve springs... these engines are built like the gassers should be IMO. 2's will put you at around 400HP towing and 425HP-ish on the "hot" tunes... hybrids are nice, but I wouldn't want them because while I could certainly tune them down, knowing I had the ability to go hotter would be too tempting for me and eventually I'd give in. I, like you, want more power without sacrificing the reliability the 7.3L is known for... we're not holding onto our older trucks for no reason! [/quote]


jon, thanks im not really trying to build a dyno # or a race truck . this has been a great truck stock it has always run when my other stuff broke ! since day one almost thirteen years now 260000 ive only towed it twice . like you said i dont have my manual here but i think i had read my motor has a forged crank / and rods / and 4 bolt caps nice stock pieces .i wasnt going to change any thing and just keep this truck maintained but than i came here . all thats changed with what is learned here. i guess i was wondering if money spent going from my small early 99 injectors to stage one ss was #1 worth the cash injectors and tuner #2 and would not cause other issues down stream in reliability and durability . and you guys are helping me decide thanks