Are we dealing with a vac brake or a hydroboost?

 

All 2011 F250's are vacuum boosted. F350's still have Hydroboost.

-blaine

 

I dont tow with my truck. I got the superduty 99% for the suspension and 4x4 setup. I do load it up with about 3k in the bed on occassion but i drive my truck more on the lines of a mistang gt driver. And i do agree with the vaccum break comment... i had a car with a elec booster and liked it alot more

 

You sound like you drive like I do. Hydroboost is a MUST, but I doubt it can be retrofitted. Might be worth a look, though, and might be cheaper than re-building the brakes from the ground up.

On dry, level pavement, from 30 MPH or so, can you lock the brakes (or tag the ABS, these days) at all? If you can, you have more than enough brake capacity, and not enough tire adhesion.

On the other hand, if you find yourself praying fervently that you can stop before hitting someone in normal traffic, then you either have a booster problem, or brakes that are in desperate need of bleeding.

As I recall, the '07's and the '11's use the same foundation brake system (and if I'm in error, the '11's use larger rotors), and it's MORE than sufficient for the unloaded truck.

You don't mention what you drove BEFORE, that you're comparing to... What's did the '11 replace?

-blaine

 

I tow a 13000 pound 5th wheel and I've found the brakes are more than adequate for my needs. Nice firm pedal and quick stops. 2011 F350 dually.

 

All Duallys have hydroboost arent they?

And what I drove before was a 2008 Denali and a 2008 sky redline. I know i cant get what I did out of the redline but i would like more than i got.

The truck feels of brake fade. I might try to find me a good pad before doing a major upgrade as i know whenever i get out after some city driving you can smell the pads kinda like burnt clutch lol. Not extreme or smokey or anything but its a distinctive smell.

As far as locking them up and causing ABS. Honestly ive never noticed the ABS kick-in. I dont even think ive noticed it in the rain but than again in the rain i put around for gas milage.

 

Repeat after me:

F250: vacuum boost
F350: hydroboost



If you can't get the abs to tag, then you've got foundation brake problems. It's not at all difficult for me to get the pulsing pedal. The brakes are designed to stop probably TWICE the weight of the truck, so if you can't get 'em to lock, you had better have them looked at.

HA! Here's a better test: place random "stuff" in the passenger's seat. Stomp the brake pedal at 30 MPH. ALL the "stuff" should wind up in the floor. If anything is still left in the seat, have 'em checked.

Another possibility: the pads didn't get bedded-in properly. Since you drove a redline, I'm ***-U-ME-ing that you know how to do that.

If the pads aren't properly bedded, they may still be outgassing, and lifting the pads off the rotors. The "smoking brake" smell sorta points to that.

Got much of the rust-colored "brake pad discoloration" on the front rims?

-blaine

 

I think that I understand now... two things:

1. I would take your Super Duty into the dealership and have them completely check our your brake system. Then drive the truck to see if there is a difference in performance.

2. If you are still not satisfied with the improved performance, then you can consider putting on aftermarket performance rotors and pads. I just installed EBC rotors and Hawk SD pads on the front axles (rear axle too when my mechanic has time). I did notice a big difference in performance. However, my 8,000 lbs Super Duty is never going to mimic my 1998 Mustang GT. They are two completely different vehicles. I have to be realistic in my expectations unless I'm willing to spend BIG $$$ for a 6-piston caliper setup front and rear, which would cost around $6,000.

Here are the rear EBC rotors and Hawk SD pads:

 

Franken, Furian and others.

Excellent advice here.

I am leaning toward a brake malfunction.

There are two ratings of brake capacity in terms of engineering.

a) is the stopping power

b) is the amount of time the power that can be maintained before brake fade sets in.


If the brakes are glazed (the smoke smell is the suspect), then stopping power is going to be compromised in future.



If you are upgrading brakes -- be sure to match the pads and rotors carefully.

I like to go for a more abrasive pad (e.g. carbon fiber / ceramic / metallic) that wears out the rotors at roughly the same rate as the pads, so I toss out both parts at once when I change.

The rotors of choice are cyrotreated ones for me.

Slotting improves performance (lets gases escape), but drilling it REDUCE both weight and performance --- so avoid that.


Oh... if you had high temps (smell from brakes) chances are the seals / EPDM rubber have been compromised.

Time to rebuild the calipers anyways.. with top quality parts (silicon) if you can find it.

If you can't time for new calipers / reman.

 

I have tried the ceramic pads a couple of times and they last twice as long as the metallic but they do not grip as well and tend to glaze the rotors. The metallic stop better but chew up the rotors. I have not tried the carbon fiber, has anyone else?

 

Im colorblind so tomorow if there is good lighting ill take a rim picture for you. As far as things flying off the seat etc under hard stopping yes i can do that. It doesnt feel like the system isnt stopping properly.

The bedding in comment, ive heard of the term but the redline brake system was 100% stock.

Next time the truck goes to the dealer illhave them pull a front wheel and caliper off and check the pad and see how it looks. I got another 2 or so months before another oil change.

 

Bedding in is basically just matching the pads to the rotors. Fresh rotors are not tempered, and fresh pads still have binding compound in the pad material. In order for brakes to work the best, the the rotors have to be tempered and surface finished, and the pads have to be "baked out".

Normally, this is accomplished sufficiently to give adequate braking performance when you break in the vehicle. That's part of the "no sudden or hard stops and no towing" dictum for the first 500 miles or so.

I've been given a rather drawn-out bedding-in process by a former racer; it's long and somewhat involved, but does a much more thorough bedding in of the pads and rotors. I can dig it up if anyone wants it.

If it's been more than a month or so since you washed the truck, the brake dust will show up on the rims, regardless of color; MINE is a rust color, but it's commonly black, as well. It's obvious: the front rims will look like crap, while the rears will look much better.

-blaine

 

"try the master cylinder fix first, i had spongey crappy brakes ever since i bought the truck new and i just did this two weeks ago and its a night and day difference."
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/74...rake-feel.html

I have done several mods to my 2003 X as the brakes as delivered where marginal. SS Lines, PFC Pads, adjusted the height between Accelerator Pedal and Brake Pedal (via adjustable pedal option by disconnecting the Accelerator Pedal adjusting motor.)

Just saw this thread re: Adjusting MC Actuating Rod (Make Longer) to tighten up brake action.
Here's what I found on my 2003 X - Shaft stickout from MC Mounting Face of Vac Booster = 0.956 inches. Spec in the Ford Dealer Manual = 0.980 to .995 inches

The adjusting nut moves 0.030 inches/rev. Mine is short of the max extension by .039 inches. (0.995 - .956 inches)

The proposed fix is to increase the adjusting rod stickout an additional 0.0390 inches - or 1.3 turns CCW.

This (1.3 turns) is in line with the 1 to 2 turns Truck owners have found made a big difference in their Truck's brakes.

I am going to do this to my X and report back on the results. UPDATE : Change made - next a test drive. Report later.

 

I have done several mods to my 2003 X as the brakes as delivered where marginal. SS Lines, PFC Pads, Zoo Dad Mod, Free flowinfg Y pipe, adjusted the height between Accelerator Pedal and Brake Pedal (via adjustable pedal option by disconnecting the Accelerator Pedal adjusting motor.)

Just saw this thread re: Adjusting MC Actuating Rod (Make Longer) to tighten up brake action.

Here's what I found on my 2003 X - Actuating rod stickout from MC Mounting Face of Vac Booster = 0.956 inches. Spec in the Ford Dealer Manual = 0.980 to .995 inches

The adjusting nut moves 0.030 inches/rev. Mine is short of the max extension by .039 inches. (0.995 - .956 inches)

The proposed fix is to increase the adjusting rod stickout an additional 0.0390 inches - or 1.3 turns CCW.

This (1.3 turns) is in line with the 1 to 2 turns Truck owners have found made a big difference in their Truck's brakes.

I am going to do this to my X and report back on the results. UPDATE : Change made - next a test drive.

Driveway Test reveals tightened up Brake feel - Braking Action is instant verus previous soft feel. My Excursion is used just for Trailer Pulling so it is Comprehensive Insurance Only - so no road driving until May when we hit the Vacation Mode.

My thanks to all that brought this adjustment to our attention.
__________________

 

I got a pass from the Insurance Company to take the Excursion out to get gas - went up $.10 over night.

The Brakes now are very good - good feel - firm pedal - I am satisfied that the Brakes are fixed this time.

The Russell S/S lines helped a lot but this booster Rod adjustment did the trick.