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Old Jan 31, 2011 | 04:24 PM
  #106  
pfabien1's Avatar
pfabien1
EcoBoost - Ford
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 25
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Originally Posted by FI50
Phil,

Hope that I'm not too late to pose a question that has been holding up my order / purchase decision.

1. Which engine gets the absolute best mileage for flat land commuting in a Super Cab 4X2 (which is 95% of my driving) ?

2. Many in the press were expecting a 24MPG rating for the 3.5 EB and had obtained even better results in their limited testing. Can you add any color as to why the 3.5 was rated slightly below the efficiency of the 3.7 ? How realistic are the EPA figures for those who drive our trucks VERY smoothly? Not that I would admit to driving like a "hypermiler" but I can get 21 to 21.5 out of a 2004 5.4 SCab Lariat.

3. Finally, do the larger wheel / tire combinations significantly decrease efficiency due to increased rotating weight? If buying a truck for commuting, would YOU pick the 17 inch, 18 inch, or 20's?

Thank you so much! We are a 4 Ford house and have gotten excellent products and service from your Company. Traveled to NAIAS from Atlanta just to see the engine and learn more about this engine.

Lastly, could you sneak a Sport Trac Adrenalin powered by the 3.5 VTGTDI out the back door? I'll show up with a briefcase full of cash and not tell anyone.
1. The best fuel economy will be a 3.7L with the lowest rear axle ratio you can get.

2. There are some advantages that the 3.7L has over the 3.5L Ecoboost that make it slightly better for fuel economy. Because of the performance/trailer tow capability the best comparator for the 3.5L Ecoboost is the V8 equipped trucks. There is a lot that goes into the final fuel economy ratings, and I am not involved in that testing, so I can't speak to the actual fuel economy label.

3. I don't know the answer, but I will try to get it for you shortly.

Thanks again for your interest and patience.
 
Old Jan 31, 2011 | 04:31 PM
  #107  
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pfabien1
EcoBoost - Ford
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Fox Fader
Hi,
At a Ride and Drive event late last year I asked one of the Ford reps what was the max boost on the EB, he stated it was always at 12psi. Being one that used to own and race a turbo car, I know its got to start somewhere. Was he just a bit mistaken and the max boost is 12psi?

Why no boost gauge in the truck?

Troy
Troy, sorry for the slow reply, I was pretty sure 12 psi was wrong, but I wanted to look at data first. The short answer is that the Ecoboost requires 13 psi boost to make peak power under standard SAE testing conditions. Environmental factors such as temperature, altitude and octane of the fuel can cause this number to be higher or lower.
The engine only runs boosted when it is required, we use a pressure activated wastegate on each turbo to control boost.
 
Old Jan 31, 2011 | 04:59 PM
  #108  
pfabien1's Avatar
pfabien1
EcoBoost - Ford
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by solaratomic
Gentlemen,
I have a few questions. Until yesterday I was the owner of a 6.0L PSD. I sold it because of multiple problems. It was my 5th ford vehicle, and it along with one other have left a bad taste in my mouth. The 05 mustang I owned especially suffered from what I consider to be a rush to market.

I am in the market for a new truck and am truly intrigued by the concept of the ecoboost. Its the engine I've been waiting on for years. Power and Fuel Economy, having your cake and eating it too. But I have some serious questions that need serious answers before I can buy off on this unproven technology or more specifically another Ford truck.

1. What measures have you and your design team taken in order to insure ease of maintenance on the EB in Body? Has your team examined what will happen when for example changing plugs, or having to change a water pump or turbo.

2. Will the EB survive marginal accesories? What I mean is if the alternator effienciency has been reduced by 70% will the electronically driven parts of the engine (ie injectors, HP fuel pump) survive long enough to get to the parts store? (without frying anything expensive)

3. What has been done to insure injector and HP fuel pump reliablilty? What tech does it use? Common rail type? Can you run it out of fuel with out destroying them?

4. With the type of cylinder pressure that this engine produces do you feel that 8 torque-to-yield head bolts is enough?

5. I am somewhat confused by the dyno hours on the "Torture engine". Was it 300 or 13000? I have heard both. I find it hard to believe that you could justify 150K mi with 300hrs.

6. How much more real world testing was done? (In-body testing)

7. Was the EB designed to run off 10% ethanol fuel? Are the EPA mileage numbers rated with such?

8. Last but by far the most important. Is Quality once again Job 1? It seems though through the 2000s it ended up pretty far down the list.
Very good questions.I will try to answer them to the best of my ability:

1. Service of parts is always a consideration for our engines. I personally have pulled spark plugs out of an Ecoboost engine while it's in the vehicle and the job was not bad. However, the plugs are designed to last 150,000 miles. The water pump is externally mounted so although we don't expect to have to service it, it should not be that bad to change. I know turbo chargers have been removed and put back on in vehicle, but I have not done the work personally.

2. I am not an electronics expert, however, we have had occasions where the battery voltage at our dynamometer lab has dropped to very low values and we have not hurt any of the components. I personally have not seen issues with our electronic actuators being destroyed by low battery voltage.

3. The injector and fuel pump are tested by both the supplier as individual components as well as engine and vehicle level testing in very harsh conditions. We wouldn't put them into production if we did not believe that they would survive in the customers hands.

4. We not only believe that 8 head bolts is enough, we have proven it with very tough testing. Look at the thermal shock testing in Episode 1 of the Torture test videos. You will see this test in action. We go from soaking at -20 F coolant to peak power 235 F coolant in minutes, run there for a period of time, shut the engine off and soak it to -20 F again.

5. The 13,000 hours I was referring to was the total of all of the dynamometer durability testing we did on Ecoboost engines. It includes many different test cycles on many different engines. The Torture test engine ran for hundreds of hours to simulate customer usage up to 150,000 miles. We are able to accelerate our testing (run much fewer hours) by running at high speeds, loads (torque) and temperature extremes.

6. I do not have a tally of all of the vehicle testing done with Ecoboost F150s. The Torture test vehicle ran ~ 15,000 additional miles after the dynamometer testing. That included driving to and from all of the torture tests and the mileage accumulated during the Baja 1000.

7. All of our durability testing is with E10 fuel. Currently the EPA does not test fuel economy with E10.

8. Quality is definitely Job 1.
 
Old Jan 31, 2011 | 05:02 PM
  #109  
FI50's Avatar
FI50
Junior User
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 57
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Originally Posted by pfabien1
Thanks again for your interest and patience.
Phil, Thank you Sir! Read your message at 5:50 and replying from the salesman's computer.

3.7 Custom Package, Oxford White.
 
Old Jan 31, 2011 | 05:03 PM
  #110  
pfabien1's Avatar
pfabien1
EcoBoost - Ford
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by johndeerefarmer
Now back to the subject. I read with interest the story on the teardown of the ecoboost and how well it held up.

First a quote from that article, then my question.


"Key findings related to the durability of the 3.5-liter EcoBoost truck engine discovered at the teardown include:
  • Turbochargers: No visual issues with the compressor or turbine, which rotated freely
  • Pistons: Rings spun freely and pistons showed no obvious signs of wear
  • Carbon deposits: Nominal. Carbon deposits can vary based on quality of fuel used and when in the cycle the engine was stopped
  • Cylinder leakdown test: The engine’s cylindersare pressurized with 100 pounds of air to measure the sealing performance of the rings and valves. The cylinder leakdown test results ranged from 6 percent to 13 percent. That's well within manufacturing tolerances, and as demonstrated by the dyno test, had no affect on the engine's performance.
Why the EcoBoost engine was so clean
The comparative lack of engine sludge/grime indicates that the engine’s PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) system and the recommended Motorcraft 5W-30 synthetic blend motor oil – available off the shelf – worked in harmony to contribute to clean engine operation. "

So my questions are: Finding a good high quality 5w-30 synthetic blend isn't a problem. The problem is finding good fuel that will leave the least amount of carbon deposits. Any suggestions? I see from the owners manual that Ford doesn't recommend fuel additives. So what about running a tank of premium through it once a month? Would this help?

I assume that all of the torture tests were done on regular unleaded?

How often and how many times was the oil changed during the torture tests?
I can't speak to the additives availble in fuels at the pump. Your best bet would be to check with the different large oil companies to see what additives they provide with the various octane fuels. Carbon deposits on the piston and combustion chamber are typical for gasoline engines(you can see them on the Torture Test engine) The level of build-up will be influenced by drive cycle. The vehicle that is driven easily, will generally have some more deposits than one that is driven more aggressively or tows on a regular basis. The dynamometer testing was run with premium fuel, the rest were run with regular fuel.
 
Old Jan 31, 2011 | 05:07 PM
  #111  
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pfabien1
EcoBoost - Ford
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Bryanox
I would like to know what the actual mileage was on the truck. Did it reach 10,000 miles? How much fuel was actually ran through this engine during testing?
I do not know the exact milage on the truck. It is more than 10,000 because the total mileage was ~165,000 including 150,000 dynamometer, ~ 1,500 from Baja 1000. I don't think the total fuel consumed was tracked.
 
Old Jan 31, 2011 | 05:12 PM
  #112  
pfabien1's Avatar
pfabien1
EcoBoost - Ford
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by MM1281
First, I would like to thank Phil for taking time to come in here and answer questions. For us gear heads its invaluable and you are the best salesman Ford has whether you know it or not.

My question is about the intelligent oil life monitor. Were you part of that development for the EB 3.5 and did the EB engine that was tore down use this system to determine oil changes? Or, was it just a predetermined amount of hours run or simulated miles? Thank you for your time.
The Oil minder was calibrated prior to the completion of the teardown. Oil changes are influenced by several factors outside of total time or mileage. If you have a drive cycle that rarely warms up the engine or runs very hot, your oil change will come up sooner than 10,000 miles.
 
Old Jan 31, 2011 | 05:41 PM
  #113  
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BigF350
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I will close this one out, we have used a fair bit of your time here Phil, and you need to get back to working on engines!
On behalf of everyone here, thanks ever-so-much for the time you have taken to answer our questions, we appreciate it.
Best of luck with sales of the truck, based on all reports it should fly out the door.

 
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