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Old Jan 3, 2011 | 01:35 PM
  #16  
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gearloose1
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Originally Posted by sdetweil
if the fuel is gelled in the tank, the block heater won't help.
Gelling can occur anywhere --- including in the areas the block heater can warm.

Also don't rule out ice crystals...
 
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Old Jan 3, 2011 | 02:10 PM
  #17  
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From: Ellensburg, Wa
Originally Posted by EpicCowlick
Wow, this is good to know. Shall we assume the fuel was not flowing then? Zero degrees is a real possibility where I live and I'd rather not have my pants down either. Nice to know the block heater helped but I'm trying to figure out how it factored into the equation. Does the block heater warm the fuel in any way?
My assumption would be that a slight increase in ambient temp and any heat added by the block heater was sufficient enough to bring the temp of the fuel in the engine/fuel rail up enough to beyond the cloud/gel point. Being in Utah, as you are, I would think that adding anti-gel/cetane booster would prudent when forecast temps are to be in the 10* or less ballpark. This would certainly prevent the dreaded "pants down" scenario!
 
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Old Jan 3, 2011 | 04:15 PM
  #18  
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Take a look here:



Are you “gellin’”? A Tip for Cold Climate Kubotas | OrangeTractorTalks





School Bus Gelling Problem | KOHD


Did you use biodiesel?


An addition of 2% bio diesel to a batch of poor quality diesel fuel can easily amount to a 10-degree or more loss of cold weather compatibility.

 
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Old Jan 3, 2011 | 04:30 PM
  #19  
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From: Ellensburg, Wa
Originally Posted by gearloose1
YIKES!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Old Jan 3, 2011 | 05:05 PM
  #20  
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Gel

If gelling occurred,

I would suspect the tank is the last place it would (lots of volume).
It would start in the small areas that have more surface area per unit of fuel. As in lines / filters, etc.

Block heater will spill some heat over to areas near by, and if its close, then it may help...

You need a high volume diesel station / Truck stop. I've never seen gel, and it gets below 0 here some times.... But, if you can't then additivies.
 
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Old Jan 3, 2011 | 05:22 PM
  #21  
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Well, if Ford really thought the block heater through, ideally when you plug in your truck it would heat the DEF tank and also warm the fuel. I doubt that the def tank is looped into the system but it should be, and warming the fuel lines from the frame mounted filter up to the engine would be smart.
 
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Old Jan 3, 2011 | 06:52 PM
  #22  
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Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel Cold Weather Information
Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel Fuel
Cold Weather Information

The Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD (S-15)) that we started to receive in mid 2006 has shown some dramatically different cold weather characteristics from the earlier High Sulfur (HSD (S-5000)) and Low Sulfur Fuels (LSD (S-500)).

These new characteristics including higher temperature gelling, wax dropout, icing, and difficulty in treating have in the first year and will continue into the foreseeable future to provide some significant challenges to distributors and end users during cold weather.

Due to these new characteristics users in areas of the US where they have not seen cold weather problems in the past, are now and will continue to see serious issues with gelling, wax dropout, and icing.

Here are the main issues known today:

Wax in diesel fuels – Paraffin wax is a natural and important part of diesel fuel. This wax provides several beneficial characteristics including high energy content (Btu’s), lubricity, stability, and viscosity. The negative characteristics mainly revolve around cold weather operation and include gelling and something new we refer to as wax dropout.

In HSD and LSD the wax characteristics were relatively well understood and consistent. For example the “Rule of Thumb” used for adding kerosene (#1 diesel, Jet A) to #2 fuel to lower Cold Filter Plug Point (CFPP) was that for every 10% kerosene added to #2 diesel you would lower CFPP by approximately 5°F. An example would be that a 50% blend would have improved CFPP by about 25°F.

However the new ULSD has had several important characteristics changed by the new refining processes. The catalytic cracking and hydrodesulfurization processes remove some of the wax, it alters the size and shape of the wax seed crystals in the fuel, lowers the aromatic content of the fuel, removes a significant amount of the Lubricity, and lowers the fuels ability to dissipate static electricity by as much as 100 times.

The result of this is that the ULSD fuel actually will gel at a higher temperature than the old LSD and HSD. This problem is made more difficult because we can no longer use regular kerosene (#1 diesel, Jet A) for cold weather blending. These fuels are considered High Sulfur and their use would cause the end fuel to have sulfur content higher than the allowable 15 ppm. So refiners have had to create an ULSD #1 specifically for winter blending purposes.

There are a number of problems with this new fuel. First, it is currently very expensive, ranging anywhere from $.30 to $1.00 more than regular kerosene, second it is not available in all areas, and third this new ULSD #1 is not as effective at lowering the Cloud Point (CP) and CFPP (gel point) of the fuel. For example; ULSD #2 when blended with 10% ULSD #1 will lower the CFPP by only 2°F or maybe 3°F. This means that a 50% blend would only improve CFPP by 10°F.

To make this problem even more difficult, many of the diesel fuel anti-gel additive products that have been on the market for last 5 to 30 years have little or no effect on ULSD. The change in fuel chemistry brought about by changes in the Catalytic Cracking processes and the addition of Hydrodesulfurization have rendered many of the most popular products nearly useless in ULSD.

There is a new cold weather problem that the industry has not adequately defined
as of today. We are calling this issue “Wax Dropout”. Wax Dropout occurs when diesel fuel is “cold saturated”. This where the fuel reaches a given temperature and stays at or below that temperature for a given period of time. This time period is usually between 48 and 72 hours or longer and the temperature can vary with different batches of fuel. This past winter we saw this problem at between 5°F and 10°F.

When the fuel gets to the Wax Dropout temperature, say for example 8°F and stays there for 48 to 72 hours, the wax will suddenly agglomerate and fall to the bottom of the container. This wax plugs filters and fuel lines until it is removed or until the fuel temperature is raised to a point where the fuel will reabsorb the wax.

Again there is a further complication, in that the “old” HSD and LSD wax would gradually start to reabsorb as the fuel temperature rose. With ULSD when wax dropout has occurred the wax does not begin to reabsorb until the fuel reaches fairly high temperatures, often above 40°F, 50°F or even higher. This can make the process of getting an engine with gelled fuel to run properly far more challenging than we have ever seen before.

In the fuel distribution and fleet operations businesses, we have relied on CFPP as
a measure of winter fuel quality for many years. CFPP is a fairly complicated test involving using a vacuum to draw a sample of fuel through a 45 um (micron) screen within a given period of time.

When the HSD and LSD were most prevalent and most fuel filters were 10 um there was a good correlation between CFPP and the temperature at which a standard fuel filter would plug. For example you could be relatively certain that a fuel testing for CFPP of -25°F would provide trouble free operation to -15°F to -20°F.

However the relationship is much different with ULSD. A ULSD fuel testing
-25°F CFPP might have filter plugging problems at between -5°F and -10°F. Also CFPP does not seem to be directly related to Wax Dropout. A fuel can test for
-15°F and still have Wax Dropout at 8°F.

Furthermore, OEM engine manufacturers have changed the media size of their fuel filters. Where 10 um has been almost an industry standard, we now see 7 um, 5 um, and even 2 um filters today. This throws the whole relationship between CFPP and winter operability out the window. For example fuel that is at the CP can have filter plugging problems with a 2 um fuel filter.

The industry has not yet agreed on or developed testing methods to measure cold weather operability with the new fuels and filters.

Until such time as the industry develops a test method for determining the relationship between CFPP, PP, Wax Dropout, and filter media size for ULSD, we suggest the following: For 10 um filters; Take the midpoint between PP and CFPP, for 7 um filters, take the midpoint between PP and CFPP, then take the midpoint between that number and the original CP, for 5 um and 2 um use the CP.

Water is more of a problem than ever before. Diesel and biodiesel fuels hold
water dissolved in them. The amount of water that ULSD is able to hold is greater than that of HSD or LSD. One of the characteristics of fuel is that its ability to hold water in solution diminishes as the temperature decreases. Fuel delivered at 70°F with 200 ppm of dissolved water will as the temperature drops begin to push that water out of the fuel into droplets. These droplets can be seen floating in the fuel and as temperatures reach and go below 32°F those droplets freeze becoming ice crystals.

As a result many of the cold weather problems where people believe they have fuel gelling problem are actually a fuel icing problem. If you have operability issues in temperatures above 0°F you should check to be sure that you aren’t dealing with ice.

Customers are regularly reporting situations where they have no water in storage tanks, no water in vehicle or equipment tanks, but they constantly have water in filters and separators. This is due to the dissolved water falling out of solution due to temperature changes.


Fuel School: Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel Cold Weather Information
 
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Old Jan 3, 2011 | 08:10 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by ruschejj
Well, if Ford really thought the block heater through, ideally when you plug in your truck it would heat the DEF tank and also warm the fuel. I doubt that the def tank is looped into the system but it should be, and warming the fuel lines from the frame mounted filter up to the engine would be smart.
Although on the surface this would be a great idea, other engineering and costing realities likely stepped in and nixed it. This winter, the new Ford 6.7 has proven itself to be a very competent cold weather performer. It starts very well at 0 degree temperatures without plugging in the block heater. It runs clean and strong with little warm up. The DEF system is not utilized at low engine temps so the DEF can be thawed by the DEF tank heater before it is needed. These realities make the need for a more complex heating system for the DEF something that had a cost involved but no real performance benefit. Utilizing the block heater for the thaw processes proposed would require Ford to publish requirements to always plug the truck in at temps below 15 degrees or so. Ramifications for a spec like that are unknown but would surely surface. JMO YMMV

Regards
 
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Old Jan 4, 2011 | 05:03 AM
  #24  
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Yeah, you are right Ricatic. The performance we have seen here is good for cold weather starts but to be a bit off topic, the 3 or 4 posts about DEF system problems do worry me. Personally, I don't think I will ever have any problems because of where I live and work. But even though the urea system is practically unused in cold weather running conditions, I hate to see folks having issues with it.
 
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