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5R110W direct clutch problems

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  #1  
Old 03-30-2010, 12:28 PM
badcarma badcarma is offline
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5R110W direct clutch problems

Has anyone had a problem with 5R110W direct clutch problems, My nephew had his 2005 SD f 250 6.0 be told that 5R110W direct clutch problems. He was towing a trailer in tow mode and it started slipping in and out, so he took it to a dealer and they said that it was the direct clutch that was causing the problem and needed to be rebuilt, he only has 40000 miles on it but they said that it is out of warranty. What do you guys think that he should do?

BC
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Old 08-21-2010, 07:17 PM
loepke72 loepke72 is offline
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Yes, I've seen this before, usually comes in as a 3-5 shift flare that's inconsistent. Every time I've found a slightly burnt direct clutch. My theory is that shift solenoid D gets a bit flaky and causes the burnt clutch. It's just enough to cause a problem, but no burnt fluid or debris in the pan. The 3-5 shift is a bit hard to get right because (I forgot which component now) goes from being driven to being held or vice versa, so it's really independent of whether someone is towing a load or not. Note that it's a 3-5 shift, not a 3-4 shift; fourth gear is only used when the transmission temperature is well below 0°F (I think it's -20°F, but I'd have to look it up to be sure). Anyway, replacing SSD and the direct clutch components fixes the problem, and this requires transmission teardown.
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Old 08-22-2010, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loepke72 View Post
The 3-5 shift is a bit hard to get right because (I forgot which component now) goes from being driven to being held or vice versa,
It's a difficult shift because the intermediate clutch has to release as the direct clutch applies. They have to be timed to both finish within 30 milliseconds of each other or things get ugly. If the direct applies before the intermediate releases you get a tie up, which makes the output shaft stop turning, and the output shaft is connected directly to the wheels. This puts an incredible load on the clutches, not to mention locking the rear wheels.
If the intermediate releases before the direct applies the trans shifts back to first gear, the engine races, and then it shifts 1-3. This puts a lot of energy into the direct clutch. A few of these shifts and the clutch will burnt.

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Originally Posted by loepke72 View Post
fourth gear is only used when the transmission temperature is well below 0°F (I think it's -20°F, but I'd have to look it up to be sure).
Fourth gear is used instead of fifth gear when the trans is colder than 0°F. Fourth is also used on kickdowns from sixth gear at certain speeds.
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:16 PM
loepke72 loepke72 is offline
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That all makes sense. Even the instructor at the Ford training center was a bit vague about the fourth gear thing on these transmissions, saying something about it making the fluid warm up faster or something like that. I think it has to do with that difficult 3-5 shift, and maybe not wanting to do that with cold fluid and screwing up the precise timing needed.

I don't strive to memorize the clutch/band application charts; that's what the service manual is for. But I do remember the 3-5 shift involving holding or driving the same component depending on which gear it was in. Screw up the timing and either it's a shift flare or the thing tries to lock up. At this time it's the most common internal Torqshift problem I run across. I wasn't doing trans work when the planetary recall was going on years ago. This unit is one of the best I have seen from Ford, reliable, tough, and easy to work on if it does need repair.
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loepke72 View Post
I think it has to do with that difficult 3-5 shift, and maybe not wanting to do that with cold fluid and screwing up the precise timing needed.
That is exactly correct! When the ATF is below 0°F we could not get the timing on the 3-5 shift to work correctly. It was MUCH easier to shift 3-4. The 3-4 shift is non-synchronous, all that happens on that shift is the overdrive clutch applies and the overdrive one way clutch overruns. If the clutch takes longer to apply all that happens is the one way clutch holds for a bit longer. The driver won't notice anything wrong.

The engine runs 9% faster in the fourth than fifth at the same vehicle speed. This has the added benefit of helping both the engine and trans warm up faster.
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Old 02-24-2015, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Kovalsky View Post
That is exactly correct! When the ATF is below 0°F we could not get the timing on the 3-5 shift to work correctly. It was MUCH easier to shift 3-4. The 3-4 shift is non-synchronous, all that happens on that shift is the overdrive clutch applies and the overdrive one way clutch overruns. If the clutch takes longer to apply all that happens is the one way clutch holds for a bit longer. The driver won't notice anything wrong.

The engine runs 9% faster in the fourth than fifth at the same vehicle speed. This has the added benefit of helping both the engine and trans warm up faster.
Just happened to be digging around and this thread popped up.

Mark it this the reason behind the different shift pattern during warmups?

BTW Thank You for all the help on mine.


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Old 02-24-2015, 05:21 AM
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Yes, that's the reason.
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Old 08-07-2015, 02:17 PM
Brian Mansour Brian Mansour is offline
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Ok my Problem is a Little different than any I have read on here so far.


P0762 Shift solenoid C stuck open
P2702 Friction element C out of range

Dropped the pan and realized it had been a while since the tranny fluid had been changed. the truck goes into gear and will move forward and reverse but it feels like I am holding the brake when I give it throttle. I dropped the pan pulled the solenoid cleaned it checked it and it ohm'd at 4.7 and functioned correctly put it back in and closed it up added clean fluids and changed the filters. took it out and drove ok then the tow/haul light flashed and the code was solenoid D stuck closed and Friction Element D out of range then cleared the DTC and the codes for C popped up again.


Please help any Ideas will be much appreciated at this point.
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Old 08-07-2015, 03:10 PM
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How do you know it functions properly? I can't tell by applying power and looking at it.
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Old 08-07-2015, 04:30 PM
Brian Mansour Brian Mansour is offline
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I applyed the 12 volts to it and it and i could hear the clicking as it pumped in and out as i applied power and removed it.

I am hoping all it is is the silenoids but i need professional help. Both for the truck and me.
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Old 08-07-2015, 06:31 PM
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I think solenoid C is not working. It needs to be replaced.
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Old 08-07-2015, 06:36 PM
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Copy Sounds good now I decided to do the pump test is there a problem if the pressure is above what is stated and what if when you shift from gear to neutral or park it drops below 50 then slowly builds back to 80 or 90 psi? I guess is there a problem if yhe pressure is higher than the pressures stated in the book?
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Old 08-07-2015, 06:36 PM
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Oh and should i go ahead and change all of them or just c and see what happens?
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