My family and I had a close call this weekend... Heading out on a camping weekend pulling our 26ft camper trailer with the 2005 V10 X. = Fire......

Short story (happened really quickly!), made long (will take longer to tell) ---
I had pulled over to look things over about 20 miles from home. When I did, I noticed the 'burnt oil' smell, but after checking under the hood, I noticed condensation dripping from the AC lines and made the assumption it was hitting the exhaust and steaming... (you're right, that wouldn't make the burnt oil smell, but I was ready to move on).

Here's where a little divine intervention occurred. We were to be camping with a couple other families, and as we were getting ready to pull out, one of these families passed us. We knew they would be going the same direction, but there was about a 5 hour window in which they would be heading that direction... Luckily we crossed paths then - because at mile 35, I noticed smoke bellowing out both sides when I slowed due to a turning vehicle. We called ahead to our friends, who where now 1/2 mile ahead, to pull over because we may need help.

We both pulled off and the smoke started rolling as my wife and I were getting the kids out of the X. My friend came up and said we were on fire! He ran back to his camper, got a fire extinguisher and was able to put us out! Good thing, because my camper keys were in the X, and the door to the camper where my extinguisher is, was locked...... What a close call.

SO--- Upon inspection, there is a rubber gasket that covers that access to the torque converter. This is where transmission fluid was coming from and dripping down onto the exhaust near the Y. As it dripped, it flamed.

I called my mechanic (I farm and seldom find time to work on my non-tractors) and he said that it sounds like a transmission seal is out.

I was able to borrow an F250 w/ 7.3l (wow, what a nice pulling machine!) and continue on about 1-hr later. At camp, my neighboring camper tells me he had a similar problem about 3 years ago with his F-350.

My questions:
(Also note: the transmission fluid level is still good and the temp gauge was normal prior to the fire)

1. Does this sound like a transmission seal?

2. Is this (a FIRE) really the result of this type of failure? Seems like a huge liability sitting there for Ford. No recalls that I can find.

3. Any thoughts on repairs that won't put my family in this type of danger again?

4. Finally (and just as an aside), is it possible to drop a 7.3L D in a 2005 V10 Ex FWD Limited?

Thanks!
Dan

 

Dan, glad to hear that you were able to extinguish the fire quickly and continue on with the vacation trip.

1. Yes, sounds just like a few trans seal failures we have seen/heard about here.

2. Yeah, a few people have reported small fires from the dripping fluid before, no recalls that I am aware of on this.

3. There is new seal from a different material, vitron or viton (something like that) that is more tolerant to heat over time than the original seal. If the trans is otherwise in good shape and functioning well all that is needed is to replace that front seal. Personally I would also look at doing a full flush and upgrading the trans cooler to the one from a 6.0, they are much larger than the V-10 one and your failure was partly due to heat. Others have reported being able to continue on their way after an incident like yours after allowing things to cool down, the seal will sometimes reseal when cooled off. The dashboard trans temp gauge is less than perfect, maybe look into a stand alone gauge or a Scangauge or smartphone type plugin device to monitor trans temps and more.

4. Sure, anything is possible. That type of swap would require a 7.3 donor EX for all of the wiring harnesses and such, lots of work.

Just curious as I too pull our travel trailer (11k) with an '05 V-10 EX, how many miles on that EX, when was the last trans service done, how heavy is the trailer, how hot was the weather, were you pulling in OD or in drive and were you pulling in a lot of hills? Sorry for so many questions, I'm just trying to get a clear picture in my head of your incident to keep in mind as I pull on our trips.

Good luck!

 

First of all, glad you and the family are safe!

To answer your questions:

1. Mark Kovalski will confirm, but I would say yes, however, from what I've seen your transmission may have gotten hot. When that happens, it tends to spew fluid out of the said seal. When things cool down, it's like it never happened.

2. Not really, it happens depending on the condition, but this isn't a regular occurrance.

3. A 6.0 trans cooler will help keep your trans cool under the most demanding of conditions. I installed one on my 7.3 Excursion and prior to that, it would occassionaly weep some fluid due to it getting hot from towing or just cruising around in 100+ degree weather. After the 6.0 trans cooler, it rarely exceeds 150 degrees and things stay within a reasonable temp even with up to 11K behind me. It's a drop in mod and requires very little modification to work and pays for itself not long after.

4. If you tow with your V10 often, you're better of dropping in 4.30 gears. It's much cheaper, way less of a headache, and the V10 becomes even more of a tow monster. Just ask the former "Unquestioned V10 Tow-Master" X_Hemi_Guy. He can school you on towing with the V10.

 

Last week I was running around in VT (2000 Ex V10 on 37" tires and 3.73, no towing but working hard from the tire size on stock gears) and had the same, or very similar issue. I was pulling up a very long and fairly steep hill. RPM was maybe 2500-3000 for a couple of minutes at maybe 40-45mph, just a guess. I came to an abrupt stop at the top of the hill and smoke billowed out from under the truck. It went away almost immediately but it was alarming. I got out and looked under and there was a drip from between the tranny and engine that was dripping directly onto the exhaust. I was nervous of a fire but in my case it was just smoke. I couldn't really tell if it was trans fluid (my first thought because of the long hard pull up hill) or engine oil from the rear main seal. It didnt look that red and when I checked the trans fluid it was still full but oil was down 1qt. I topped off and the rest of the day seemed to go fine but I was being gentle on the truck, keeping RPM down and being gentle up hills and off-road. The next day everything still seemed fine and I slowly went back to thrashing on the truck. It made the trip back home on Saturday at 80mph on the highway up and down hills for 3 hours. No issues and no more evidence of a leak.

Sounds like I have the same or similar issue. It could have just been a coincidence that my oil was 1qt low. I haven't checked it since it was last changed at a quick change type of place 3000 miles ago. Im curious to hear what other people have to say about the issue and what your resolution ends up being.

 

Thanks for the feedback!
- About 120,000 miles.
- I bought it about 5k ago and do not know of the prior service history on the transmission.
- The trailer is around 9000# loaded
- The weather was cool - 75 degrees or so
- I was in OD, except when I'd come to a hill, where I'd turn OD off
- I'm in Western PA, so rolling hills, but honestly relatively flat for the 20 miles of driving prior to initially noticing.


Also perhaps of note: axle on door panel shows 31.

 

It happened to me as well, except I didn't have the fire. I posted about it here. https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...rter-seal.html

I don't have any spec's on my torque converter but I was told that the new heavy duty one has more fins to spin more oil and there would be less slippage within the torque converter so therefore less heat buildup.

 

I sent a PM for Mark to take a look at this thread and I've also sent a PM to call the "The Un-questioned V10 Tow Master" out of retirement: Joe aka X_Hemi_Guy.

 

That describes a failed (or at least overheated) torque converter hub seal. If the converter wasn't locked it could get hot enough for the seal to relax and leak. Sometimes it will leak a lot, sometimes just a drip.

The ultimate fix is to replace the stock seal with an aftermarket seal made from Viton. They are readily available. The torque converter hub needs to be inspected where the seal rides. If the surface is anything less than perfect the converter needs to be replaced or the new seal will also leak. The hub bushing should also be replaced at this time since it's about $5 and can cause this problem all over again.

 

How is the hub bushing replaced?

 

With the torque converter removed the bushing is visible. It can be removed with a puller, or if it is really worn it may fall out.

 

Last weekend, I pulled a vintage Jaguar inside an enclosed car trailer for about four hours with my grandpa's '04 V6 Mountaineer. It definitely struggled, but he has made this trip to Florida before with the same trailer, although a little less weight. I shut overdrive off for most of the trip because it hunted too much. Kept it about 60-65 the whole time.

About two hours into the trip, we were going slower in a construction zone and suddenly I start seeing smoke come up from under the car, toward the trailer. With nowhere to pull over (no shoulder), I kept going and watched it. The smoke subsided after a couple miles and I pulled off at the first exit ramp, which had a handy park n ride. Discovered it was indeed a trans fluid leak, but we couldn't tell where it was coming from. We then continued on, stopped to eat about 20 mins later and gave it a good chance to cool down. We were able to finish the trip with no problems, thankfully. Once arriving at the destination, we put it up on a lift and could thoroughly inspect. My grandpa cleaned everything up and took it for a solo drive. Came back, put it back on the lift, and sure enough, it was starting to leak again right at the bell housing/torque converter, so I suspect it needs a similar job to yours. This was dripping right down on the axle tube, and then the wind flung it back into the exhaust. Luckily it never caught fire!!