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  #1  
Old 05-10-2014, 10:14 AM
cajohnson cajohnson is offline
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460 Trigger wheel for EDIS

I'm sure that this must be covered somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it. I did find a few references about using a T-Bird trigger wheel, but that was the extent of the comments.

I did find this:
Dragon Fabrication

But, from my ignorant perspective, this seems very expensive, and it doesn't include a sensor mount!

On inquiry, I got this reply:

Quote:
Hi Chris,

I am selling only the 6061 Billet Aluminum spacer/trigger wheel mount and
36-1 wheel in the kit. This kit sells for $345 and contains the Aluminum
spacer anodized red, 4 grade 8 bolts, 4 stainless steel washers and a 36-1
steel trigger wheel that is powder coated black.

I am not selling a Sensor bracket because the placement of the sensor is
dependent on the ECU being used.

I do not use VR sensors but I recommend getting HAL sensors from
DIYAutotune.com and one can fine either weatherpack or deutch connectors
kits form Amazon.

I can sell the Spacer/trigger wheel mount not anodized for a $40 discount if
that helps.

I have kits in stock that have not been anodized yet. These I can ship
immediately, If you want one anodized I will have them by the end of the
month.

Rob
Perhaps this is harder to accomplish this than it seems on the surface, and the price is actually reasonable, but I'm in no position to make that assessment with my current level of knowledge.

What are other folks' opinion about this product and price? Also, is there another way to accomplish this that I haven't found yet?

Thanks in advance,

Chris
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  #2  
Old 05-10-2014, 07:07 PM
Eddiec1564 Eddiec1564 is offline
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Here's some info I encountered in my searching about EDIS....

MJLJ V4 vehicle installation guide - Autosport Labs

Autosport Labs :: View topic - Another 72-2 wheel...

Autosport Labs :: View topic - 72-2 Toothed Wheel

EDIS 8 on a 460? - FSB Forums


I though about putting EDIS on my 300 I6
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  #3  
Old 05-11-2014, 08:47 AM
cajohnson cajohnson is offline
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I put some more questions to Rob at Dragon Fabrication. This is his reply:

Quote:
Hi Chris,

This is long but I wanted to help as much as possible.

1) My kit replaces the stock spacer for Internally balanced engines. This is
important to consider in your 86 application. If your stock spacer has a
large extension on one side you are externally balanced. If you are
rebuilding the engine then you might consider switching to internal
balancing though that will require a different harmonic balancer and
flywheel or ring gear.

2) The spacer is the same length as the factory spacer (within a few
thousands) so the factory harmonic can be used and remains in the same
location as factory. Thus the pulleys remain in the same location.

3) Yes the ford EDIS-8 does use a VR sensor and a 36-1 trigger wheel. The
EDIS-8 requires the VR sensor to be aligned with the 5th tooth before top
dead center in other words 50 degrees before TDC for #1 Cylinder. For more
information on the alignment and some help in what car models have the
proper sensor see Megasquirt-3 MS3 Ignition - Ford EDIS Look down the page
for the section on Ford EDIS-8 it's a good write up.

4) the diameter of my 36-1 wheel is 6"

5) To confirm I DO Not have bracket to mount crank sensors. I have built a
few for people I know but it they take a few hours to produce one that would
be nice enough to sell thus are not cost effective. I have investigate
having a machine shop make them but that proved expensive as well.

My kit has 4 slotted holes for mounting the wheel to the spacer so you have
lots of position options for the sensor. If you install the spacer with the
missing tooth at TDC for #1 cylinder the sensor @ 50 degree BTDC sensor
lines up about halfway between the two lower left hand bolts that secure the
timing cover. I did a 547 recently with a bracket made from aluminum this
took about 5 hours. See some pictures here:
http://www.dragonfabrication.com/dra...ain/index.html


If you can mig weld you can make a serviceable bracket from steel pretty
quickly.
1) Make a plate that has holes that match the two bolts timing cover bolts.
2) Since the timing cover bolt holes are not the same, the top one needs
spacing behind the plate to align with the bottom one stack washers to make
the plate parallel to the block.
3) Make a plate that will be welded 90 degrees to the first plate that
mounts the sensor.
4) Move the Engine to TDC for #1.
5) Install the trigger wheel with the missing tooth at TDC
6) install the first plate and spacer
7) Hold the second plate that has the VR sensor and align it do the fifth
tooth is in the center of the sensor and the sensor has between 30 and 40
thousands clearance (same as spark plug gap). A trick is to sandwich a
feeler gauge between the sensor and the wheel tooth then weld. That way you
can hold the plate tight to the gauge/tooth easily.
8) tack the two plates together with a mig welder
9) take it off and weld it up.

There you have a serviceable bracket that will do the job.

Let me know if you are interested in a kit or if I can help further

Rob
I had pretty much decided to go with Rob's unit, but he raised a question that I don't know the answer to, and that is about the "internal" or "external" balancing.

How do I know if my engine is externally balanced?
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  #4  
Old 05-13-2014, 12:29 PM
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cbakker cbakker is offline
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Check for a weight on the spacer right behind the harmonic balancer. Dead giveaway for an externally balanced motor.

When in doubt about a 460 question, google Paul Kane followed by your concern. e.g. "paul kane externally balanced 460"

Internal or external balance? - Ford Forums - Mustang Forum, Ford Trucks, Ford Focus and Ford Cars
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:42 AM
cajohnson cajohnson is offline
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Externally balanced

Thanks for the info. My engine is indeed externally balanced, so putting a trigger wheel between the damper and the engine is, pretty much, not an option.

I'm really surprised that there isn't some sort of standard setup that is readily available for the 460. On the other hand, after studying the damper and pulley arrangement, I don't see any simple way to mount a trigger wheel either.

So, what to do? The best option I see is to put the trigger wheel between the damper and the pulley assembly. The hole in the center of the trigger wheel would have to be more than two inches in diameter to fit over the nose of the damper, so the wheel would have to be "special". But, considering the diameter of the pulleys, the wheel ought to be about 7.75" in diameter, and that seems to be a non-typical diameter so the wheel has to be custom anyway.

The front mating surface of the damper (where the pulley assembly mates with the damper assembly) would have to be turned back an amount equal to the thickness of the trigger wheel but, other than sacrificing a few threads for the pulley bolts, there doesn't look to be any other consequences to taking this approach. Then I just have to come up with some sort of rigid bracket for the VR sensor.

Anybody got a better idea for all this? I'm open to all suggestions.

Chris
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:42 AM
 
 
 
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