Have been trying to learn about scan procedure and the associated
language / terms that go with it . The reason I'm looking for some
input is I'm going to take my 2006 F150 4.6 2 valve to a independent
shop for a diagnostic scan and would like to know what I'll be talking
about with the tech. , the symptoms are ; ( intermittently ) runs rough
at times under light to moderate acceleration , the check engine lite
not flashing but steady illuminated , which I had checked at orileys
and the code was P 0315 , I did replace the crank shaft sensor , still
the CEL comes on steady after about 60 to 80 miles , less than 400
miles on the new sensor . I think its cop boots/ plugs but want to test
to see what else may be wrong , , So I'll cut to the chase , would the
correct "lingo " be to ask about a OBD II mode 6 scan , and also a
power balance test procedure , and what would be a " full deep " scan
called ? , in other words , scan all the senors and parameters involved .

Discovered another " term " , Controller Area Network ( CAN ) , does this
"system " apply to my pickup ? is it part of a diagnostic scan ?

 

Here is a way out idea, but it's free to check, so here you go. Loose timing chain rubbing on the crank hall effect wheel, or hall effect wheel put on backwards after timing job. Pull the sensor again and get a bright light and peer through the hole. Turn the crank and make sure the teeth are all good. Any missing/worn/bent teeth might be your problem. Make sure the teeth point toward the radiator if it is a stamped unit. Look for metal powder on the sensor too.

 

Thanks for the input , I really don't know how I could look into the port
or hole that the sensor is fitted , when I replaced it I could barely get my
hand in that area to do the job , I'm 99% sure that it has never been apart
so all factory , , when I took out the original sensor it was in perfect condition
no marks / scratches or filings of any kind , My gut feeling is that it's not in
the timing chains / train , the symptoms are intermittent and not real severe

 

I Use my phone and a buddy of mine has a boroscope. I think they are 50 bucks sometimes at Harbor Freight, but like I said I usuall just take video with my phone and look at it after the fact. Not sure if that would work where the sensor is though. Another place you can look is the connector. Make sure it is free of oil and debris, that the connections aren't frayed, and that the terminals aren't corroded. Also test the sensor to make sure it is good. It may be new, but that doesn't mean much these days.

 

It would cost me more to go to harbor freight ( 100 miles one way ) and
get a scope than a scan which I was quoted from $40 to $80 depending
on how long it takes , I did check the connector plug and wire harness
the plug is like new , clean / dry / no corrosion , wire harness in good
condition , I think a full scan would be worth the money , Was hoping
that somebody out there would chime in on my original plea for some
help with the proper terms / procedure for a scan so I can have a halfway
decent conversion with the tech who does it .

 

What is a “full scan”?

As far as I know, a “code reader” can read DTC codes.

A “scanner” can read live data ( but only that data that the scanner knows how to ask the PCM for, AND only if the PCM is capable of sending that data to the scanner.

What kind of data would you want to have displayed for your P0315 code?

You either have a problem with the crank sensor tone ring, or with the crank sensor, or with the wiring going between the crank sensor and the PCM.

Your prolly gonna have to open up the front cover to inspect the tone ring, which you said you don’t want to do, or get a lab scope to read the crank sensor signal where it goes into the PCM to see if the signal looks correct. I don’t know how much variation in the tooth signal/spacing is acceptable to the PCM software.

Since you have been having this issue since April and the vehicle runs fine, just ignore it. Only problem is when the CEL light comes on you won’t know if it is because of the P0315 or a new issue that might need attention.

 

Thanks Jim , I appreciate the input , it will help me to better communicate
with the tech. plus it helps me to better know if the guy is a hack or not , talked
with two places today on the phone first guy I talked to understood all my
questions and seemed straight with me about the cost involved, the second
place I talked to understood my questions but was very short and pretty much
said bring it in for a cel scan for a fixed price , I wont be going there that's for sure

 

The first thing you need to do is look up the code description.
It does not tell you the crank sensor is faulty.
It says the PCM cannot 'learn' the crank position information.
That is not a sensor failure.
If any shop can't do any better, your in for a ride.
To learn the information, the sensor counts teeth on the timing ring and sends it to the PCM for timing reference.
The system is way more complex than your thinking and not knowing anything will be a long learning curve.
There are nearly 2000 codes for all the different system functuions.
Good luck.

 

2000 codes ... , If I ever win the lottery I'd rather spend $15,000 on
a late 50s restored pickup with a straight six , 4 speed and a 2 speed
rear end , were I live we don't have to deal with emissions tests , just
buy my tabs and good to go .

 

Will a power balance test , and a mode 06 test 53 help to discover
if , or which cop boot/ and or spring and spark plug is at fault ? also
does Controller Area Network ( CAN ) apply to my system , please
bear with me as I know zero about CAN , much less anything else
" computer " related .

 

@krisinwa, I hear ya. And I'll bet @pdqford relates too. (I think he's the only one that has the distinction of being older than ME!).


But -- if you told us your 50's truck just clicked when you turned the key to start, we would also be discouraging you from putting those snow chains on to see if THAT would make it GO. Even when you added the detail about "4 ft of snow", it still ain't gonna help. Horse before the cart, ya know.

The problem is, the PCM is so damn fast, it actually determines a "TRUE" misfire occurred by detecting the absence of the slight increase in rotationally volicity of the crankshaft that is known to occur IF the cylinder fires!. Another way of saying it is, the PCM can hear the slight dip in the freequency of pulses from the CPS. (You've heard the gizzmo on the crank referred to as the tone ring). It literally is if you put an oscilliscope on the CPS sensor leads, set the scope to 'trigger' on Cylinder 1 COP primary signal. OR - better yet, PIP (Profile Ignition Pickup), because THAT is the signal the PCM generates from the 'missing tooth' on the tone ring and Cyl 1 COP would be offset from that by whatever ignition timing advance happened to be at the instant.



I'm not even sure an IDS system could perform a 'power balance' test reliably if the PIP signals are not regular, or Profile is not in KAM.

Now, fast forward to Code 315. That smart little PCM is telling you it has exhausted attempts at building its "CPS Profile in Keep Alive Memory". Therefore, it is unable to reliably determine when to issue PID signal for TDC basis for PIP signal and/or WHAT constitutes a misfire. So how can you trust misfire readings (If it is producing any at all). ---- Yes, Mode 06 Misfire data would be interesting. It will show misfire counts for each cylinder individually for the 'current' drive cycle, AND for the last ten drive cycles. BUT with that 315 code, if you had a high misfire count on cylinder 'X', I would be more suspicious of THAT indicating where the tone ring might be damaged than I would a COP or spark plug. The PCM is saying it has a ****ty or squiggly freequency signal from the CPS.


There are a couple of other things your mechanic might check if he has a 'blazing' fast OBDII scanner. The PCM on our trucks 'outputs' several useful ignition AND misfire signals. My Torque Pro setup is not fast enough to keep up with ALL OF them (only a few), but you can SHOCK your mechanic and tell him you want to know what their readings are. Try this:

PIP Counter, PID 09D5, one byte. (I THINK this shows cyl # that the PIP signal is for (in firing order) but too fast for MY setup)
PIP Last half-time (up edge to down edge), PID 09D6, response 2 bytes binary, (A*256+B) ??results - suspect microseconds
PIP Last Time Period (total), PID 09D7, response 2 bytes binary, A*256+B ??results suspect microseconds
PIP Profile Ignition Pickup Input, PID 1102, Bit 4
PIP Profile Ignition Pickup, PID 09CD, Bit 2

Misfire Monitor Profile is learned in KAM: PID 16DD, Bit 0 of response byte 1
Misfire Monitor Completed this drive cycle: PID 095D, Bit 7 of response byte 2
Misfire Occurring flag: PID 1102, Bit 0 of response byte 1. (I think this is set if CEL is flashing)
Misfire free Number of Drive Cycles, PID 16DC, response 2 bytes binary: formula = A*256+B (This gives number of drive cycles since a 'POST 1000 revolution' misfire occurred. Pre-1000 rev misires are treated much less significant.
Total number of misfires THIS drive cycle, PID 1616, response 2 bytes binary: formula = A*256+B
In Drive at time of last misfire, PID 16DD, Bit 2 of response byte 1
Intake Air Temp at time of last misfire, PID 16D6, 1 byte response: formula = A*(9/5)+32
Engine-off Soak Time at time of last misfire, PID 16D8, 2 bytes A*256+B gives minutes
Engine RPM at time of last misfire, PID 16D3, 2 bytes (A*256+B)/10 gives RPM
Engine run time at time of last misfire, PID 16D8, 1 byte binary - gives seconds 0-255
Engine load at time of last misfire, PID 16D4, 2 byte response: formula = (A*256+B)*(128/32768)

You (or your mechanic) might find this post helpful: https://www.f150forum.com/f4/5-4-3v-...5/#post5287209
It has a 'CSV' file attached that has all the PIDs and formulas for downloading.


Let us know what the mechanic has to say.


-----EDIT
I lied (without intent), the linked post doesn't have a CSV file attached - but I have one and I'll get it anybody one who wants.

 

Guess I should be more careful in what I ask for in the way of
information , the above will take me 6 months to figure out ...,
thank you for all the information , what was your MOS when
you were having fun overseas ?

 

Uh Oh... I remember my SS#, Drivers Lic No., and Dog Tag number, but I've forgotten my MOS number. Whatever a Medic was, 4587 or some such. Anyway, I did know how to drive a duce and a half and stick shift jeeps too. haha


Your truck is 'CAN', and I do think the PIP 'stuff' would be worth more for your issue than any of the misfire 'stuff'. Before COP ignition came along, the PIP signal could be accessed external to the multi wire coils. I actually "THINK" the PIP signals output by the PCM is intended to sorta serve the purpose of synchronizing IDS electronics for the Ford techs. But even with OBDII readers capable of communicating at 150K baud, seems like it would be 'lame' synchronization for diagnosing ignition spark or determining ignition timing with much accuracy.


I was thinking -- Your CKP sensor has shielded wire, which shows on the schematic to be grounded 'at right rear of engine compartment'. You might TRY to make sure that ground ckt is good and clean. If you do not have an wiring diagram, you can download my 2004-5 schematic from here:
http://www.devoll.com/public/f150-5_...nce-wiring.pdf It shouldn't be any different in most areas.

 

Ok , thanks for the schematic I'll take a closer look at the wiring harness ,
talked with my brother in law last night , he told me he was in the 25th Inf.
Div. 1967 -68 , SP 4 , 11- B , Difficult for me to imagine being a medic ,
Tough Job . I truly mean it when I say Thank You for your service .

 

Thanks for your kind words and please pass along my admiration to your brother-in-law for the part he played as well. I would, without hesitation, do it all again to insure the life we have all enjoyed throughout the 50 years that followed. My prayers are heavily weighted that the swamp rats in Washington don't screw it all up for us - and with any remaining grace I deserve, that your P0315 code goes away painlessly.