1/2 ton or 1 ton rear 64" chevy springs?
#1
03-26-2013, 08:19 PM
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#3
03-26-2013, 08:28 PM
It totally depends on your intended purpose for the truck.
If you want lots of flex and are not hauling weight or towing a lot, I would go with the 1/2 Ton stuff.
If you want to keep your towing capacity as a 3/4 Ton, I would go with the 1 Ton stuff.
If you want lots of flex and are not hauling weight or towing a lot, I would go with the 1/2 Ton stuff.
If you want to keep your towing capacity as a 3/4 Ton, I would go with the 1 Ton stuff.
#4
03-26-2013, 08:32 PM
Here is some cut and paste info I read 3500 rear springs and and 1500 rear front spring hangers in there....this from a fellow FTE'er.
The leaf spring bushings are slightlylarger than the original hanger, so grinding the bushing down is a reasonablesolution. This only has to be done to the front of the spring. For the rear, I replacedthe pivot bushings, and used an off the shelf Toyota poly bushing used in 80'sera 4x4's. These bushings had to be modified a little to fit, but workedperfectly.
By taking a small torch to the old bushings, they popped right out, and left asmall metal insert in the pivot itself. I was able to leave this in there andnot fight it to remove. This can be tough to remove while the pivot is still int he truck.
By taking about 10 thousandths off of the bushing itself, it went in withlittle trouble. This is almost a perfect fit. Then I lubed up the metal insert,and viola, it is the same width as the spring bushing, and a perfect fit. Frontend is done, and everything lines up.
Oh, if the leaf is equipped with a military wrap design, it may have to beeither cut or removed to fit the smaller hanger of the highboy. Later 78/9 bolton hangers are larger and fit the military wrap leaf.
Longer front shackles will have to be made, and the new length should be rightat the 5.75" mark. This will provide enough room for the spring to flexand keep the spring from hitting the frame. This has been a problem I have beenworking out over time. Quality material and thick steel has to be used here.Too small or thin and the shackle will flex.
For the rear, the popular thing to do is the shackle flip. Since this requires theremoval of the rear hanger anyway, half of the work is already done. Now sincethe perfect donor hanger is to use the fixed hanger found at the front of therear spring, this means that another hanger needs to be installed where thisone was removed.
Step by step:
Remove both hangers, and throw the inverted rear hangers in trash.
Purchase, a longer hanger for the front of the rear spring. 1/2 ton, or 2wdhangers are longer and will provide more lift. Make sure that the width is thesame as the spring. Chebby hangers can be used here too.
Align the 64" rear spring so the axle is centered in the wheel opening.
Install the newly purchased hanger in the front of the spring and attach to theframe.
Install the original front hanger in the very rear of the spring and hang theshackle from this. Bolt up and verify that all hangers are level. Use a qualityfastener here.
This will net some pretty serious lift and much will depend on the rear springthat you use. This 64" spring is easy to find in the salvage yard, andwill cost way less than new springs.
I am telling you, this system works and works well. Not expensive either. Myfront leafs ran about 500 bucks for the pair, a great friend gave me a set ofleafs (thanks again ChaseTruck754) and my hangers ran about 40 bucks from thesalvage yard. This clears 40"rubber, and flexes like crazy.
Rides well, I mean extremely well, and I still tow a car hauler with a ratherlarge 1 ton truck with this truck.
When looking for spring hangers, don’t limityourself to just this era of ford trucks. They are limited in numbers at thesalvage yards and just try to find a new one at a dealership. That being said,you can use a later model spring hanger, the hanger does not care. I suggestedthat one look into chabby hangers, if you are going to remove the spring from a2000 plus silverado, grab the front hanger too. Use this on the front of thespring, and then use the factory ford one on the very back of the spring forthe shackle flip. This is a very inexpensive way to lift a vehicle and stilluse the comfort and versatility of the newer spring.
I used:
Front:
8" BDS front springs from a 99 to 04 "gas" Super Duty
Extended my front shackles, they now measure 6 inches from center to center
Custom front shock mounts (17" travel front shocks)
Stainless braided front brake lines
Crossover steering (Dana60F) and power steering conversion using Saginaw 16:1box
U bolt flip
Rear:
Stock 64" long 3500 series chebby silverado rear leaf
2001 chebby silverado 1500 series front spring hanger mounted lower to providemore lift
Stock Ford front spring hanger installed in the very rear to accommodateshackle flip
Relocated shock mount to accommodate 14" travel shocks
Stainless steel brake line
1. They are quite simple, you will have to follow some of my old threads, or read some ofthe posts where we have discussed it in great detail. You will have to cut orremove the military wrap leaf to clear the small spring hangers, and you willhave to make longer shackles. The SD springs use larger fasteners so you willhave to drill the hanger to 18mm or step up to 3/4" bolts. The shacklesare going to get drilled anyway, so you can go with the metric stuff or use9/16" SAE.
2. My set upon the red 74 (now its a 74, as I have since sold the 75. I had two identicaltrucks a coupe of years ago, and they sort of evolved into one truck) is a BDS8" front spring pack with 2 leafs removed. Custom shackles to allow for additional travel, custom front shock mounts using 2.25" diameter smoothbody shocks, 17" stroke.
Rear is a bone stock 3500 series chebby silverado leaf pack with zero lift,stock 4 inch block and a shackle flip using stock hangers.
That’s it, it clears 39.5" boggers. Unfortunately I do not run bump stopsso my fenders take a beating and are always wrinkled.
ADVICE#2
Now we are starting to see why alternativelifts are becoming popular.
With 10 inches, one could assume that you have a desire to clear 44"rubber right?
I only ask because, 10" SD front springs will give you greater than 10inches of lift over your stock height.
You will have to grind the spring eye bushings a little to fit inside of the 75spring hangers. A few minutes with a flap wheel and an angle grinder will makeshort work of this.
You will also have to make longer shackles for the front springs. If you do notjump the truck, or get overly aggressive, you can get away with a shackle thatis 5.25 inches. This will clear the frame, and allow a decent amount of pivot.The shackle angle will increase with the use of the longer SD spring, but thisangle is good, and contributes to the better ride quality.
At this time, you will probably want to replace the front pivot bushings. I canguarantee that your 30 year old ones are shot.
You will want to be aware that this extended shackle does affect"caster" so caution must be used when making this modification. Toolong, and the pinion angle gets whacky, and the truck steers very slow.
You will have to remove the entire leaf that makes up the "militarywrap". This is the second leaf in the pack. The diameter will not fit inthe stock hanger. I have run with the entire leaf removed, and have cut thewrapped portion out of the pack. Removing the leaf itself allows for more flex.I have yet to encounter a failure, or bend a main leaf after a removal. I ampretty hard on my vehicles.
After this, the spring mounting hardware will have to be addressed. Thebushings are a larger diameter, and will require you to drill the hanger to alarger size. You can either drill to 18mm and buy an 18mm bolt for the front,or make the bushing larger to accommodate a 3/4" bolt. Since you aremaking your own shackles, you can use the stock size upper bolt, and drill thelower to the appropriate size.
For the rear, you have many options here, but the best so far, is to ditch thestock leaf all together. You will probably consider a shackle flip, and sinceyou are removing the rear pivot, you might as well remove and replace the frontone as well.
What I did was remove the front fixed hanger and mounted it to the rear. Thiscreates a new mount for the shackle. For the front fixed mount, I replaced minewith a late Chebby hanger. It was longer and created more lift. These liftfigures will vary depending on how you mount it to the frame. The longesthangers can create as much as 6 inches of lift when combined with a shackleflip.
Alright, so you have the hangers off completely, and now you have a fewoptions. The best option here is to use a 64" long rear leaf, also from alate model chebby truck. 2wd, or 4wd this does not matter, and it will fit theshackle, and hanger from your highboy.
I used the very end bolt holes as a reference for my new bolt holes. The veryoutside holes became the inside mounting holes. This required me to drill abunch of holes for the new 1/2" hardware, but I was confident in axlealignment because I was able to use 4 existing holes. Shackle angle is at 23degrees, and has a bunch of flex with a 2wd 1500 64" stock leaf. <o
></o
Longer shackles will change this. Weightcapacity is very limited if you use a 1/2 ton rated spring. The fix here is touse a 3/4 ton spring.
Lift figures will vary based upon different springs, and which hangers you use.It is very easy to create the 10+ inches of lift with this method of lift, andthough it sounds rather complex, it is really pretty easy, as long as you canread a tape measure, and are careful to attach everything with safety in mind.
These rather flat springs really flex well, and offer a fantastic ride over thestock units. Because they are flat, they do a pretty good job of controlling the axle, and help to eliminate wheel hop. I can really lay on the throttle,and spin up the rear tires in any condition, and the axle does not hop. It does get a little weird if I lock the brakes up, but this has only happened once ortwice.
While this combo sounds like a bunch of work, when compared to the amount ofwork required for a similar modification, the rewards are well worth theeffort.
Shock lengths become the limiting factor, because the springs at this point arecapable of more travel than the shocks can travel when using the stock mountinglocations, but for the weekend user, the stock locations will be fine. For amore aggressive user, new mounts that are farther apart will be a benefit.
I am still working out the bugs for additional travel, but I am using justabout the entire stroke of a 14" front shock. Not bad for such a largetruck. Fenders really suffer (Thanks again to Steve / chasetruck754 for all ofthe fenders I keep crushing, lol), a little because of the additional flex, butthis can be eliminated with the use of an aftermarket bump stop.
Guess I should state the obvious: brake lines, steering, drive shafts will all have to be addressed.
The leaf spring bushings are slightlylarger than the original hanger, so grinding the bushing down is a reasonablesolution. This only has to be done to the front of the spring. For the rear, I replacedthe pivot bushings, and used an off the shelf Toyota poly bushing used in 80'sera 4x4's. These bushings had to be modified a little to fit, but workedperfectly.
By taking a small torch to the old bushings, they popped right out, and left asmall metal insert in the pivot itself. I was able to leave this in there andnot fight it to remove. This can be tough to remove while the pivot is still int he truck.
By taking about 10 thousandths off of the bushing itself, it went in withlittle trouble. This is almost a perfect fit. Then I lubed up the metal insert,and viola, it is the same width as the spring bushing, and a perfect fit. Frontend is done, and everything lines up.
Oh, if the leaf is equipped with a military wrap design, it may have to beeither cut or removed to fit the smaller hanger of the highboy. Later 78/9 bolton hangers are larger and fit the military wrap leaf.
Longer front shackles will have to be made, and the new length should be rightat the 5.75" mark. This will provide enough room for the spring to flexand keep the spring from hitting the frame. This has been a problem I have beenworking out over time. Quality material and thick steel has to be used here.Too small or thin and the shackle will flex.
For the rear, the popular thing to do is the shackle flip. Since this requires theremoval of the rear hanger anyway, half of the work is already done. Now sincethe perfect donor hanger is to use the fixed hanger found at the front of therear spring, this means that another hanger needs to be installed where thisone was removed.
Step by step:
Remove both hangers, and throw the inverted rear hangers in trash.
Purchase, a longer hanger for the front of the rear spring. 1/2 ton, or 2wdhangers are longer and will provide more lift. Make sure that the width is thesame as the spring. Chebby hangers can be used here too.
Align the 64" rear spring so the axle is centered in the wheel opening.
Install the newly purchased hanger in the front of the spring and attach to theframe.
Install the original front hanger in the very rear of the spring and hang theshackle from this. Bolt up and verify that all hangers are level. Use a qualityfastener here.
This will net some pretty serious lift and much will depend on the rear springthat you use. This 64" spring is easy to find in the salvage yard, andwill cost way less than new springs.
I am telling you, this system works and works well. Not expensive either. Myfront leafs ran about 500 bucks for the pair, a great friend gave me a set ofleafs (thanks again ChaseTruck754) and my hangers ran about 40 bucks from thesalvage yard. This clears 40"rubber, and flexes like crazy.
Rides well, I mean extremely well, and I still tow a car hauler with a ratherlarge 1 ton truck with this truck.
When looking for spring hangers, don’t limityourself to just this era of ford trucks. They are limited in numbers at thesalvage yards and just try to find a new one at a dealership. That being said,you can use a later model spring hanger, the hanger does not care. I suggestedthat one look into chabby hangers, if you are going to remove the spring from a2000 plus silverado, grab the front hanger too. Use this on the front of thespring, and then use the factory ford one on the very back of the spring forthe shackle flip. This is a very inexpensive way to lift a vehicle and stilluse the comfort and versatility of the newer spring.
I used:
Front:
8" BDS front springs from a 99 to 04 "gas" Super Duty
Extended my front shackles, they now measure 6 inches from center to center
Custom front shock mounts (17" travel front shocks)
Stainless braided front brake lines
Crossover steering (Dana60F) and power steering conversion using Saginaw 16:1box
U bolt flip
Rear:
Stock 64" long 3500 series chebby silverado rear leaf
2001 chebby silverado 1500 series front spring hanger mounted lower to providemore lift
Stock Ford front spring hanger installed in the very rear to accommodateshackle flip
Relocated shock mount to accommodate 14" travel shocks
Stainless steel brake line
1. They are quite simple, you will have to follow some of my old threads, or read some ofthe posts where we have discussed it in great detail. You will have to cut orremove the military wrap leaf to clear the small spring hangers, and you willhave to make longer shackles. The SD springs use larger fasteners so you willhave to drill the hanger to 18mm or step up to 3/4" bolts. The shacklesare going to get drilled anyway, so you can go with the metric stuff or use9/16" SAE.
2. My set upon the red 74 (now its a 74, as I have since sold the 75. I had two identicaltrucks a coupe of years ago, and they sort of evolved into one truck) is a BDS8" front spring pack with 2 leafs removed. Custom shackles to allow for additional travel, custom front shock mounts using 2.25" diameter smoothbody shocks, 17" stroke.
Rear is a bone stock 3500 series chebby silverado leaf pack with zero lift,stock 4 inch block and a shackle flip using stock hangers.
That’s it, it clears 39.5" boggers. Unfortunately I do not run bump stopsso my fenders take a beating and are always wrinkled.
ADVICE#2
Now we are starting to see why alternativelifts are becoming popular.
With 10 inches, one could assume that you have a desire to clear 44"rubber right?
I only ask because, 10" SD front springs will give you greater than 10inches of lift over your stock height.
You will have to grind the spring eye bushings a little to fit inside of the 75spring hangers. A few minutes with a flap wheel and an angle grinder will makeshort work of this.
You will also have to make longer shackles for the front springs. If you do notjump the truck, or get overly aggressive, you can get away with a shackle thatis 5.25 inches. This will clear the frame, and allow a decent amount of pivot.The shackle angle will increase with the use of the longer SD spring, but thisangle is good, and contributes to the better ride quality.
At this time, you will probably want to replace the front pivot bushings. I canguarantee that your 30 year old ones are shot.
You will want to be aware that this extended shackle does affect"caster" so caution must be used when making this modification. Toolong, and the pinion angle gets whacky, and the truck steers very slow.
You will have to remove the entire leaf that makes up the "militarywrap". This is the second leaf in the pack. The diameter will not fit inthe stock hanger. I have run with the entire leaf removed, and have cut thewrapped portion out of the pack. Removing the leaf itself allows for more flex.I have yet to encounter a failure, or bend a main leaf after a removal. I ampretty hard on my vehicles.
After this, the spring mounting hardware will have to be addressed. Thebushings are a larger diameter, and will require you to drill the hanger to alarger size. You can either drill to 18mm and buy an 18mm bolt for the front,or make the bushing larger to accommodate a 3/4" bolt. Since you aremaking your own shackles, you can use the stock size upper bolt, and drill thelower to the appropriate size.
For the rear, you have many options here, but the best so far, is to ditch thestock leaf all together. You will probably consider a shackle flip, and sinceyou are removing the rear pivot, you might as well remove and replace the frontone as well.
What I did was remove the front fixed hanger and mounted it to the rear. Thiscreates a new mount for the shackle. For the front fixed mount, I replaced minewith a late Chebby hanger. It was longer and created more lift. These liftfigures will vary depending on how you mount it to the frame. The longesthangers can create as much as 6 inches of lift when combined with a shackleflip.
Alright, so you have the hangers off completely, and now you have a fewoptions. The best option here is to use a 64" long rear leaf, also from alate model chebby truck. 2wd, or 4wd this does not matter, and it will fit theshackle, and hanger from your highboy.
I used the very end bolt holes as a reference for my new bolt holes. The veryoutside holes became the inside mounting holes. This required me to drill abunch of holes for the new 1/2" hardware, but I was confident in axlealignment because I was able to use 4 existing holes. Shackle angle is at 23degrees, and has a bunch of flex with a 2wd 1500 64" stock leaf. <o
></oLonger shackles will change this. Weightcapacity is very limited if you use a 1/2 ton rated spring. The fix here is touse a 3/4 ton spring.
Lift figures will vary based upon different springs, and which hangers you use.It is very easy to create the 10+ inches of lift with this method of lift, andthough it sounds rather complex, it is really pretty easy, as long as you canread a tape measure, and are careful to attach everything with safety in mind.
These rather flat springs really flex well, and offer a fantastic ride over thestock units. Because they are flat, they do a pretty good job of controlling the axle, and help to eliminate wheel hop. I can really lay on the throttle,and spin up the rear tires in any condition, and the axle does not hop. It does get a little weird if I lock the brakes up, but this has only happened once ortwice.
While this combo sounds like a bunch of work, when compared to the amount ofwork required for a similar modification, the rewards are well worth theeffort.
Shock lengths become the limiting factor, because the springs at this point arecapable of more travel than the shocks can travel when using the stock mountinglocations, but for the weekend user, the stock locations will be fine. For amore aggressive user, new mounts that are farther apart will be a benefit.
I am still working out the bugs for additional travel, but I am using justabout the entire stroke of a 14" front shock. Not bad for such a largetruck. Fenders really suffer (Thanks again to Steve / chasetruck754 for all ofthe fenders I keep crushing, lol), a little because of the additional flex, butthis can be eliminated with the use of an aftermarket bump stop.
Guess I should state the obvious: brake lines, steering, drive shafts will all have to be addressed.
#6
03-26-2013, 08:36 PM
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#7
03-26-2013, 08:39 PM
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77&79f250,
i have read your cut and paste many times over and over in your other posts. I just can't make up my mind!!
redroad,
front springs.....uhhhh.....to say the least its a rough ride. its stock leafs with a thick add a leaf a few springs up from bottom. i'm hoping to get the 79 dana 60 up front this summer with crossover steering and diesel superduty springs also. Then again that dana 60 has been sitting in the garage for 2 years now!
i have read your cut and paste many times over and over in your other posts. I just can't make up my mind!!
redroad,
front springs.....uhhhh.....to say the least its a rough ride. its stock leafs with a thick add a leaf a few springs up from bottom. i'm hoping to get the 79 dana 60 up front this summer with crossover steering and diesel superduty springs also. Then again that dana 60 has been sitting in the garage for 2 years now!
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#9
03-26-2013, 08:50 PM
#10
03-26-2013, 09:00 PM
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I do have a flat bed also that weighs less than the factory bed. Pretty easy to get stuck in 2 high in just a little bit of snow due to 98% of the weight in the front.
I thought maybe the 1/2 tons would help it "squat" a little better during take off? But then again, that is an excellent point about the 1 tons. Much easier to take away springs than it is to add ones that i wouldn't have with the 1/2 tons!!!
I thought maybe the 1/2 tons would help it "squat" a little better during take off? But then again, that is an excellent point about the 1 tons. Much easier to take away springs than it is to add ones that i wouldn't have with the 1/2 tons!!!
#12
03-26-2013, 11:52 PM
#13
03-27-2013, 07:24 AM
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i did intall a ARB locker when i swapped in a dana 80 last fall for off roading. It still likes to just spin out though with newish 37" terra grapplers and all. Not a big deal, i just leave the hubs locked when driving around under 45.
lurch,
i sure wish he showed up on here once and a while too!! Very informative person.
lurch,
i sure wish he showed up on here once and a while too!! Very informative person.
#14
03-27-2013, 01:25 PM
Lead Driver
I was going back & forth on the same question.
I ended up with the 4" lift Deavers for a 2500 truck (3/4 ton) because I got them for a good price. They allowed me to ditch the factory lift block too which was what I wanted.
My thought is grab the 1500 ones for $20 if that's all he wants. Run them & if you decide you don't like them you're only out $20. Just keep them on there til you find some 3/4 or 1 ton springs at that point.
As for 75F350 - he's around, just busy. He posts on FSB mostly now I think. He hasn't been on here in ages.
I ended up with the 4" lift Deavers for a 2500 truck (3/4 ton) because I got them for a good price. They allowed me to ditch the factory lift block too which was what I wanted.
My thought is grab the 1500 ones for $20 if that's all he wants. Run them & if you decide you don't like them you're only out $20. Just keep them on there til you find some 3/4 or 1 ton springs at that point.
As for 75F350 - he's around, just busy. He posts on FSB mostly now I think. He hasn't been on here in ages.
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