No Start/Hpop
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,549
Likes: 14
From: Payson, AZ
Greg, or anyone for that matter,
Here's some very good trouble shooting info. It was a "No Start Thread"
Originally posted by Dave (Golfer) on PSN 01-20-2010 Thank you Dave
"its nevvvvver the oil pump...seriously. (Meaning the HPOP)
I see sooooooooooooooo many guys (dealerships included) that see "no ICP" or some ICP codes in a scantool...and toss HPOP's on truck after truck...when it is either an IPR or an injector (poppet valve) issue.
If you hook up the scantool, and monitor ICP (psi) while cranking...you'll see IPR% (duty cycle) climb & climb 15% key on..20, 30, 40, 55%, higher..the increase in IPR% means that the PCM is requesting ICP pressure to increase...
so ALSO watch ICP(psi) and if it comes up to only 180-250psi or so and stays there...then it's the IPR hung open (bypassing oil back to the oil pan through the front cover) such that only minimal psi can be made.
If the ICP is VERY low...like under 60psi...then it could be injector (poppets) pissing oil (under the VC's)..which is typical for injector with more than 180-200k miles.
if ICP climbs above 550-600..then it will probably climb much higher (1500-1800+) and it is most likely going to be an electrical issue.
If his scantool will not connect then its a PCM or chip issue (remove the chip if you have one & haven't removed it yet)
if the scantool connects AND you have >600ICP then look at the datastream for a RPM reading.
i the scantool picks up an RPM signal and it seems accurate....then the CPS is good.
If no RPM on the scantool, replace CPS.
If you have RPM (on scantool, not just on dash)...AND have ICP >600, then run an (key on, eng off) injector "buzz test"...
the buzz test is nothing more than a continuity test from the PCM, through the IDM, and to & from each injector solenoid.
LISTEN to each inj buzz....do they all sound the same? nice & crisp?
if the test passes (and you audibly heard them all)...then wiring is good, IDM is good, HPOP is good...CPS is good...then it could be a fuel issue. gasoline, water, etc...
I wouldn't mention it if I haven't seen it myself numerous times...
any chance this no start began with 10-20miles after a fillup?
holler if you need help troubleshooting.
take care~ Dave"
Here's the LINK to the entire thread.
Here's some very good trouble shooting info. It was a "No Start Thread"
Originally posted by Dave (Golfer) on PSN 01-20-2010 Thank you Dave
"its nevvvvver the oil pump...seriously. (Meaning the HPOP)
I see sooooooooooooooo many guys (dealerships included) that see "no ICP" or some ICP codes in a scantool...and toss HPOP's on truck after truck...when it is either an IPR or an injector (poppet valve) issue.
If you hook up the scantool, and monitor ICP (psi) while cranking...you'll see IPR% (duty cycle) climb & climb 15% key on..20, 30, 40, 55%, higher..the increase in IPR% means that the PCM is requesting ICP pressure to increase...
so ALSO watch ICP(psi) and if it comes up to only 180-250psi or so and stays there...then it's the IPR hung open (bypassing oil back to the oil pan through the front cover) such that only minimal psi can be made.
If the ICP is VERY low...like under 60psi...then it could be injector (poppets) pissing oil (under the VC's)..which is typical for injector with more than 180-200k miles.
if ICP climbs above 550-600..then it will probably climb much higher (1500-1800+) and it is most likely going to be an electrical issue.
If his scantool will not connect then its a PCM or chip issue (remove the chip if you have one & haven't removed it yet)
if the scantool connects AND you have >600ICP then look at the datastream for a RPM reading.
i the scantool picks up an RPM signal and it seems accurate....then the CPS is good.
If no RPM on the scantool, replace CPS.
If you have RPM (on scantool, not just on dash)...AND have ICP >600, then run an (key on, eng off) injector "buzz test"...
the buzz test is nothing more than a continuity test from the PCM, through the IDM, and to & from each injector solenoid.
LISTEN to each inj buzz....do they all sound the same? nice & crisp?
if the test passes (and you audibly heard them all)...then wiring is good, IDM is good, HPOP is good...CPS is good...then it could be a fuel issue. gasoline, water, etc...
I wouldn't mention it if I haven't seen it myself numerous times...
any chance this no start began with 10-20miles after a fillup?
holler if you need help troubleshooting.
take care~ Dave"
Here's the LINK to the entire thread.
Thread Starter
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Posting Guru
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: house springs,mo
OK robin i printed that thanks, now what to think of all that info!OK so i bought some new batteries so i could use my AE in that i found one thats the (Injector control pressure duty cycle)so with the key in the on position it reads 14.84 and then when i crank the engine over it drops to (0) nothing,is that a clue?is there other readings in AE i should try?
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Posting Guru
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: house springs,mo
BUMP
So im not getting any readings while cranking from my ICP duty cycle,so im not getting any high pressure oil in my rails its all going back down into the pan because my IPR isnt working? what ya think?
So im not getting any readings while cranking from my ICP duty cycle,so im not getting any high pressure oil in my rails its all going back down into the pan because my IPR isnt working? what ya think?
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Posting Guru
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: house springs,mo
OK i removed mt IPR and took it apart and cleaned it,put it back in the truck and add oil!Connected my AE and now im getting icp duty cycle readings from 15 key on up to 60+ when cranking,but my RPM`s were only getting to 99 before engine slowed down while cranking!New batteries so whats next a starter?(help)
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 10,764
Likes: 39
You are reading IPR duty cycle % (from 15 - 60 cranking) . The ICP readings should be from 0 -2500 or so. The 60 IPR %cranking is the PCM asking for all it(the IPR) has , because it is not seeing ICP pressure ..
Have you tried starting it with the ICP sensor dis connected ?
Have you tried starting it with the ICP sensor dis connected ?
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Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,447
Likes: 1
From: Northern Idaho
I have to wonder if this is a IDM failure, is it possible? Any thoughts? And don't mind me if this seems like a stupid suggestion/question, I'm just getting over being sick and my head is still a bit fogged up.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 26,966
Likes: 50
From: Texas
You can kill new batteries too. Watch voltage while cranking after you charge them back up.
We still need to see ICP psi AND ICP % while cranking. When the IPR approaches 60%, what is the max ICP you're seeing? Is the HPOP reservoir staying full? Could you have blown an injector i-ring bad enough to bleed off that much ICP?
We still need to see ICP psi AND ICP % while cranking. When the IPR approaches 60%, what is the max ICP you're seeing? Is the HPOP reservoir staying full? Could you have blown an injector i-ring bad enough to bleed off that much ICP?
Thread Starter
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Posting Guru
Joined: Nov 2006
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Likes: 1
From: house springs,mo
You can kill new batteries too. Watch voltage while cranking after you charge them back up.
We still need to see ICP psi AND ICP % while cranking. When the IPR approaches 60%, what is the max ICP you're seeing? Is the HPOP reservoir staying full? Could you have blown an injector i-ring bad enough to bleed off that much ICP?
We still need to see ICP psi AND ICP % while cranking. When the IPR approaches 60%, what is the max ICP you're seeing? Is the HPOP reservoir staying full? Could you have blown an injector i-ring bad enough to bleed off that much ICP?
weres icp psi on AE? im needing to know what i need to read with AE,i didnt check reservoir,i hope the injector o-rings or poppets arent bad,new injectors are in truck only 30,000 miles on them not(reman)
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 10,764
Likes: 39
You can kill new batteries too. Watch voltage while cranking after you charge them back up.
We still need to see ICP psi AND ICP % while cranking. When the IPR approaches 60%, what is the max ICP you're seeing? Is the HPOP reservoir staying full? Could you have blown an injector i-ring bad enough to bleed off that much ICP?
We still need to see ICP psi AND ICP % while cranking. When the IPR approaches 60%, what is the max ICP you're seeing? Is the HPOP reservoir staying full? Could you have blown an injector i-ring bad enough to bleed off that much ICP?
We still haven't seen what ICP pressure is while IPR is at 60 %...
a blown O ring could certainly do it (empty the res) no ICP...
Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2009
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From: Northern Idaho
yes but with a blown O ring wouldn't that cause smoke from the exhaust as it would be trying to burn the oil being dumped into the cylinder or would it be dumping the oil into the valve cover?