High EGT's on stock program
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,404
Likes: 3
From: Asheville-where weird is
Search for the B.E.S.T. map on here. The one in my signature is broken and old... I think there is someone in the Albuquerque area that may be able to scan your truck and save you a trip to the dealership. The scanners at the typical parts houses don't read our trucks well or at all.
The previous post is pertinent to your situation as well.
And I'll add another IPRDC.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,026
Likes: 23
So, if it went away with a new HPOP, then the ICP must have been low. Were you able to monitor it prior to replacement. I would think that low ICP would throw a code. Anyway, it comes down to fuel atomization, with low ICP, it would be minimal, and also with the time that it takes to get the prescribed amount of fuel injected into the cylinder. If you were able to monitor it, what was FIPW? As a rule of thumb, anything beyond about 3.0ms tends to increase EGT's
Laughing Gas
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,026
Likes: 23
Fwiw to the OP, obviously I'm not saying it is the hpop but maybe don't forget to look there.
Of note, I recall that before my hpop completely failed and I was driving with these high EGT's my truck seemed to run real clean, like not much smoke at all even under wot. It also seemed rather gutless. So despite the expense of a hpop, my truck had more power and egts completely under control so it took the sting out of it.
Of note, I recall that before my hpop completely failed and I was driving with these high EGT's my truck seemed to run real clean, like not much smoke at all even under wot. It also seemed rather gutless. So despite the expense of a hpop, my truck had more power and egts completely under control so it took the sting out of it.
More Turbo
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 584
Likes: 1
As I understand it black smoke is too much fuel(or a lack of air). It seems like no smoke might be an issue on the fuel delivery side (lack of fuel).
If this is correct, then people with boost leaks would see more black smoke (not enough air).
The one thing that I don't understand is how a lack of fuel (and smoke) is related to high EGTs. For a diesel, it seems as if high EGTs is related to excess fuel.
Cargo Master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,502
Likes: 2
From: Bend Oregon
I'm working out a similar problem. High egts when pulling a load, no smoke, I even hooked up a GoPro camera to see if I could get a hint of black smoke when going WOT. Nothing. Also max boost is 14 PSI.
As I understand it black smoke is too much fuel(or a lack of air). It seems like no smoke might be an issue on the fuel delivery side (lack of fuel).
If this is correct, then people with boost leaks would see more black smoke (not enough air).
The one thing that I don't understand is how a lack of fuel (and smoke) is related to high EGTs. For a diesel, it seems as if high EGTs is related to excess fuel.
As I understand it black smoke is too much fuel(or a lack of air). It seems like no smoke might be an issue on the fuel delivery side (lack of fuel).
If this is correct, then people with boost leaks would see more black smoke (not enough air).
The one thing that I don't understand is how a lack of fuel (and smoke) is related to high EGTs. For a diesel, it seems as if high EGTs is related to excess fuel.
More Turbo
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 584
Likes: 1
It's not so much a lack of fuel but a lack of atomization of fuel. You can be getting the correct amount but if it takes forever to inject and has a slow lethargic burn that fire is hanging out in the cylinder and may even be burping out in to the exhaust manifold when the valve opens.....and you get big EGT numbers.
Ahhh, interesting. So low HOPOP oil pressure could do this.
I guess low fuel pressure could also then produce similar results.
Now for the slow lethargic burn, would a leaky o-ring cause this type of problem? Oil gets in the fuel and prevents it from burning as fast as it should - but no blue smoke because it's enough to screw up the burn but not enough to show at the exhaust?
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,404
Likes: 3
From: Asheville-where weird is
Before we can know if it is the HPOP, we need to know what your ICP readings are and IPRDC.
The fuel pump simply supplies fuel to the fuel bowl and then to the heads at about 55 to 65 psi. The injector does the rest.
What is your fuel pressure.
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More Turbo
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 584
Likes: 1
For bad o-rings, the HP oil leaks into the fuel. I assume this might create poor combustion - leading to a lack of power, similar to low fuel pressure or low HPOP. If the leak is small enough, then maybe no smoke?
If there were smoke, I assume it would be blue?
From what I can tell, the fuel path is:
If this is correct, then oil would need to get through both the main filter and the prefilter if it came from the heads. So, both the inside and the outside of the main filter would have oil on them if this were the case.
I would also thing that fuel drained from the filter would contain enough oil that it would separate out if left in a jar.
Does any of this seem right?
If there were smoke, I assume it would be blue?
From what I can tell, the fuel path is:
Code:
PUMP | | \/ Regulator | |----->Tank Return |---> Drain Valve??? \/ PreFilter | | ---> Driver Side Test Port \/ Filter | |---> Passenger Side Test Port | | \/ Heads
If this is correct, then oil would need to get through both the main filter and the prefilter if it came from the heads. So, both the inside and the outside of the main filter would have oil on them if this were the case.
I would also thing that fuel drained from the filter would contain enough oil that it would separate out if left in a jar.
Does any of this seem right?
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,849
Likes: 179
From: Puget Sound
- I have the current BEST map link in my signature.
- If you are confident that your air is all tip-top, then we need fueling numbers. You won't get that without a bunch of expensive gauges and a lot of work - or you can get them in an instant with an OBDII interface and software/app.
Fuel pressure:
The 7.3L and the 6.0L have HEUI injectors - and they force us to bend our thinking about fuel pressure. On other diesels of this era, fuel pressure makes a huge difference on atomization and power. With ours, we need to prevent going too low - and higher fuel pressure does absolutely nothing for atomization or more power. The fuel pump just needs to make sure the tiny fuel reservoir in each injector is full before the injector solenoid opens up - sending as much as 2800 PSI (stock) of oil in there to force the fuel out the nozzle. When you have 2800 PSI of oil bee-otch-slapping the fuel into the cylinder (fuel pressure out the nozzle bumped up to 20,000 PSI with an intensifier piston) - what do you suppose increasing fuel pressure from 60 PSI to 70 PSI will do for you? Can you say cap gun vs. nuke?
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,404
Likes: 3
From: Asheville-where weird is
Yes your fuel path is basically correct.
If I understand your train of thought, then consider this:
The HPOP creates high pressure. Volume is relatively low, at least until a line ruptures. You would be amazed by how little oil is used in each injection cycle. So, for you to experience the hypothetical that you are proposing, there would need to be a major problem with at least one injector on the oil side of the equation. You would have some major misfires and shaking.
When is the last time you changed your fuel filter. It should be black if the o-rings are gone. The oil from bad o-rings does does not stay in the fuel bowl long term because it gets sent back to the heads as soon as pressure from the HPOP decreases to the point that the o-rings can recover and begin to function semi-normally again.
If they were totally shot and oil seeped past them during low ICP: low pressure events like idling, then the title of the thread would be "No Start".
If I understand your train of thought, then consider this:
The HPOP creates high pressure. Volume is relatively low, at least until a line ruptures. You would be amazed by how little oil is used in each injection cycle. So, for you to experience the hypothetical that you are proposing, there would need to be a major problem with at least one injector on the oil side of the equation. You would have some major misfires and shaking.
When is the last time you changed your fuel filter. It should be black if the o-rings are gone. The oil from bad o-rings does does not stay in the fuel bowl long term because it gets sent back to the heads as soon as pressure from the HPOP decreases to the point that the o-rings can recover and begin to function semi-normally again.
If they were totally shot and oil seeped past them during low ICP: low pressure events like idling, then the title of the thread would be "No Start".
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,404
Likes: 3
From: Asheville-where weird is
As far as injectors are concerned, the volume of fuel injected per event, single injection by a single injector, is very small: most every injector of our type follows the same action. It takes an average of 1000 cycles for a 160cc injector to inject 160 cc's of fuel.
Tugly (Rich) is referring to pressure from the fuel pump above when he is talking about going "too low" and the "cap gun'.
Too low would be below 50 or so and you don't benefit from anything above about 65 psi from the fuel pump.
Tugly (Rich) is referring to pressure from the fuel pump above when he is talking about going "too low" and the "cap gun'.
Too low would be below 50 or so and you don't benefit from anything above about 65 psi from the fuel pump.
More Turbo
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 584
Likes: 1
My follow up is getting off topic for the OP - specific to my truck/issue. I've trued to move that part of the discussion to the other thread.
Hopefully we can continue this fuel system discussion there:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post15615803
I've added a question with fuel filter photos, and a video of the exhaust at WOT in regular speed and slow motion.
Hopefully we can continue this fuel system discussion there:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post15615803
I've added a question with fuel filter photos, and a video of the exhaust at WOT in regular speed and slow motion.
Thread Starter
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Elder User
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 600
Likes: 1
From: Albuquerque, NM
well, thanks for all the info guys, I really appreciate the feedback. I have a trip planned this weekend and my next task is to get glow plugs in the passenger side and a 4" exhaust installed. While I'm in there I will hook up my leak detector and see what I come up with. When I originally did my leak test a few months ago I did not have an air compressor so I was using a bike pump. Now I have a compressor so maybe I will discover some leaks. I will get back with results in a couple weeks. For now I'm headed up to prime fly fishing country, Ted Turner's place, Vermijo Ranch. My daughter works there, so I'm lucky I even get to set foot on the place, could never afford it if she wasn't there.