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-   -   FTN's T4/SXE Build/Conversion Thread (https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1628232-ftns-t4-sxe-build-conversion-thread.html)

FordTruckNoob 06-26-2020 06:16 AM

FTN's T4/SXE Build/Conversion Thread
 
2 Attachment(s)
The time has come for this to have its own thread. This project started over a year ago when I read @Sous ' thread on his own T4/SXE conversion. After switching to FFD 205/80 injectors, my GTP38R is/was simply unable to keep up and EGTs were getting unmanageable any time I got on the go pedal. I believe it was contributing factor to my blowing a hole in piston #3. Even then, I was reluctant to switch to a T4/SXE setup because it meant the loss of the EBPV. Living in MN, the EBPV is a necessity to get the engine warmed up quickly. @Dan V might disagree though. That is when I started exploring ideas on how to incorporate an exhaust brake with a T4/SXE setup. Turns out @brokestroke had already done a considerable amount of work on this front. I was pretty much resigned to needing to fabricate my own EBPV/Exhaust Brake when @countrycar posted about the DPS Turbonator VGT/VNT Exhaust Housing. After several calls to DPS, I made the decision to use their exhaust housing as it is the cleanest way to incorporate an EBPV/Exhaust Brake into a T4/SXE conversion. Parts buying then commenced. After several months (and credit card billing cycles), all the major components have arrived. First mockup occurred on June 25th. Here is where we are at currently:

Edit 2: It appears I have not adequately described the need for the 4” v-band flange on the DP based on the questions I’ve been getting so here goes. The standard T4 exhaust housing has a v-band flange with an overall outer diameter of 4.21”. Therefore, all the T4 conversion kit manufacturers supply downpipes with a matching 4.21” v-band flange. The v-vand flange on DPS’ VGT/VNT housing is 4”. Therefore, I had to source a v-band flange with an overall diameter of 4”. This was shipped off to CSD so they could weld that onto the DP that was going into the kit I was buying. Carson was very accomodating with this request. The links to this 4” v-band flange and matching v-band clamp are in the parts list attached. This parts list will be updated as I discover new parts needed as I work on this conversion.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...6b866f88e9.jpg
The standard T4 housing has a DP flange dia of 4.21"

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...d33ec52968.jpg
The DPS VNT/VGT housing has a DP flange dia of 4".

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...abc23e22e4.jpg
A custom 4" v-band and v-band were required.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...dc2d2079ee.jpg
The VGT/VNT housing also has an actuator that sticks quite a ways out from the housing.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...7ed7bd0e17.jpg
It will have to be reclocked to not interfere with the y-pipe.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...e0bf8a5c3c.jpg
Here's what it looks like from the other side.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...94660c39a9.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...f8663aa02e.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...bac97470c9.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...0a2651e068.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...47c97af83d.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...896539823a.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...78ee87c918.jpg

EDIT 1: Oops, forgot to to attach my parts list initially.

Dan V 06-26-2020 07:25 AM

Noob, I don't disagree with the EBPV being a nice warm-up feature, and the trick of using it for an exhaust brake....but, at the time of my SXE install, I didn't see a workable solution to keep it.

Anyway, I'm super excited to see how this progresses for you,and as I mentioned when you stopped by...if I can facilitate some part of the fab for you I'm surely willing. The other parts of the shop are on a 2 week shutdown, so I should have plenty of time.

Sous 06-26-2020 07:55 AM

This is going to be a lot of fun to watch and all of us are hoping for only the best results.

I have included a link to this thread in my T4/SXE Parts List thread.

Keep up the good work Leonard!

Macmathews 06-26-2020 07:56 AM

Really..
Many would disagree that keeping EBPV for warming up is not required.. (plus its so sickening)
I still have mine BTW..
Why not just plug in your truck on those extremely cold days ?? - that trumps all here in Ontario Canada.. - Our weather is likely very similar !.
What size BW is that ?

Kyle

KubotaOrange76 06-26-2020 08:45 AM

How is the exh housing controlled? Does it come with its own tuning that reacts to rpm, boost and fueling? Is it somehow controlled by oem pcm and a custom flash?
VGT can work very very well but the tuning/control seems to be the key, this is exciting

Sous 06-26-2020 11:57 AM


Originally Posted by KubotaOrange76 (Post 19350903)
How is the exh housing controlled? Does it come with its own tuning that reacts to rpm, boost and fueling? Is it somehow controlled by oem pcm and a custom flash?
VGT can work very very well but the tuning/control seems to be the key, this is exciting

This.......

FordTruckNoob 06-27-2020 07:09 AM


Originally Posted by Dan V (Post 19350818)
Noob, I don't disagree with the EBPV being a nice warm-up feature, and the trick of using it for an exhaust brake....but, at the time of my SXE install, I didn't see a workable solution to keep it.

Anyway, I'm super excited to see how this progresses for you,and as I mentioned when you stopped by...if I can facilitate some part of the fab for you I'm surely willing. The other parts of the shop are on a 2 week shutdown, so I should have plenty of time.

I know. I was just yanking your chain. :-wink

Thank you again for the offer. I have a feeling I will be tapping you on the shoulder pretty soon.


Originally Posted by Macmathews (Post 19350843)
Really..
Many would disagree that keeping EBPV for warming up is not required.. (plus its so sickening)
I still have mine BTW..
Why not just plug in your truck on those extremely cold days ?? - that trumps all here in Ontario Canada.. - Our weather is likely very similar !.
What size BW is that ?

Kyle

Yeah I was just yanking Dan's chain. I do pug the block heater in in winter actually. It's an S366.


Originally Posted by KubotaOrange76 (Post 19350903)
How is the exh housing controlled? Does it come with its own tuning that reacts to rpm, boost and fueling? Is it somehow controlled by oem pcm and a custom flash?
VGT can work very very well but the tuning/control seems to be the key, this is exciting


Originally Posted by Sous (Post 19351235)
This.......

The system has its own standalone controller. It is the black box in the lower right corner of this picture.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...465ff41112.jpg

Parameters are modified via a program from DPS on a laptop. How it is programmed is explained in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN1F...ature=youtu.be

I have to say I am quite impressed with the engineering on this thing so far. The build on the housing seems robust and the programming interface is intuitive.

Sous 06-27-2020 07:26 AM

The software seems very robust. Thanks for posting it.

countrycar 06-27-2020 09:24 AM

:-jammin:-X22

FinnishStroker 06-27-2020 10:20 AM

I have EBPV delete pedestal,in freezing temps i use block heater..It sits in high idle while im on my morning dump,windows has plenty of time to defrost..

Dan V 06-27-2020 03:22 PM

It's going to be interesting to see how you manage the actuator and the Y.

FordTruckNoob 06-28-2020 07:19 AM


Originally Posted by Dan V (Post 19352945)
It's going to be interesting to see how you manage the actuator and the Y.

First thing I'm going to try is reclocking the actuator per the instructions in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pLp...ature=youtu.be

If that doesn't work, then I'm going to have to start looking into fabricating a custom y-pipe. I hope it doesn't come to that.

Dan V 06-28-2020 06:40 PM


Originally Posted by FordTruckNoob (Post 19353744)
First thing I'm going to try is reclocking the actuator per the instructions in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pLp...ature=youtu.be

If that doesn't work, then I'm going to have to start looking into fabricating a custom y-pipe. I hope it doesn't come to that.

My guess is that there is going to be some extensive fab work on the Y pipe.

FordTruckNoob 06-28-2020 06:50 PM


Originally Posted by Dan V
My guess is that there is going to be some extensive fab work on the Y pipe.

If it comes to that, I may try to make it out of carbon fiber.

Bonanza35 06-29-2020 05:01 PM

I'm following this, going to be another expensive upgrade for our trucks!

Khan 06-30-2020 07:41 AM


Originally Posted by Bonanza35 (Post 19356118)
I'm following this, going to be another expensive upgrade for our trucks!

Same! This could be a game changer for T4 fence sitters and I'm eager as I'm sure everyone else is to see the end results.

Dan V 06-30-2020 09:21 AM

I'm going to be interested in seeing you layup the carbon fiber.

FordTruckNoob 06-30-2020 11:11 AM


Originally Posted by Dan V (Post 19357298)
I'm going to be interested in seeing you layup the carbon fiber.

To whet your appetite, here is an integrated seat mast topper/saddle I made for my road bike. All my CF work is structural so it's not pretty. I did wet layup for this one but I may try resin infusion for the y-pipe. Total weight is 193.6g and it supports my 175lb ass.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...ee264b033d.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...15bd6029f3.jpg

Wes444 06-30-2020 04:19 PM

Ahh, a fellow cyclist....
Mad skills/ patience to R&D your seat :-X22

I spent more than I'd like to admit just adjusting mine up/down/front/back/tilt to fit me just perfect on all the hills and flats after many rides :9

Dan V 06-30-2020 04:47 PM

You cycling people....This is a saddle, not that carbon fiber thing attached to a post.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...714afe1e96.jpg

Sous 06-30-2020 04:55 PM

:-offtopic

I used to ride sport bike motorcycles... Does that count?

2003 GSX-R 600cc Alstare and a 2008 Hayabusa 1340cc.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...9b776c06f5.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...dc57960c98.jpg

-------------------------------------------------
On a thread related note, what would you change in the shape or routing of the Y-pipe if you did make your own out of carbon fiber? Would you put a dent or diversion in the upper part of the Y that goes to the IC tube? Have you thought that far yet or just set a COA in case you need to go that far?

Dan V 06-30-2020 05:31 PM

nope......

FinnishStroker 06-30-2020 06:22 PM

Im with Dan on the saddle issue.

Noob,If theres going to be trouble with y-pipe,just fab completely new with different angle..?

FordTruckNoob 07-01-2020 05:56 AM


Originally Posted by Wes444 (Post 19357934)
Ahh, a fellow cyclist....
Mad skills/ patience to R&D your seat :-X22

I spent more than I'd like to admit just adjusting mine up/down/front/back/tilt to fit me just perfect on all the hills and flats after many rides :9

Oh me too. I did not arrive at the geometry for the integrated unit until I was absolutely sure that position is how I like it. What do you ride?


Originally Posted by Dan V (Post 19357972)
You cycling people....This is a saddle, not that carbon fiber thing attached to a post.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...714afe1e96.jpg

What say you to this eh?
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...0191f4dde7.png



Originally Posted by Sous (Post 19357986)

2008 Hayabusa 1340cc.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...dc57960c98.jpg

-------------------------------------------------

Interestingly, one of the race cars I am interested in is powered by a 'Busa motor.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...0ed8979229.jpg




Originally Posted by Sous (Post 19357986)
On a thread related note, what would you change in the shape or routing of the Y-pipe if you did make your own out of carbon fiber? Would you put a dent or diversion in the upper part of the Y that goes to the IC tube? Have you thought that far yet or just set a COA in case you need to go that far?


Originally Posted by FinnishStroker (Post 19358109)
Im with Dan on the saddle issue.

Noob,If theres going to be trouble with y-pipe,just fab completely new with different angle..?

What I am constrained by in terms of reclocking the actuator is how much clearance I have to the y-pipe at the front, to the underside of the cowl of the cab on top, and to the T4 mounting bracket to the rear. Looking at how high the housing sits above the plate, I could possibly clock it below but would rather not for ease of access to the actuator. My best chance of having good clearance on all sides is to clock it 45 degrees up and to the front. I suspect this will still be insufficient to clear the y-pipe but will clear the cowl of the cab. The other option is to clock it 45 degrees up and to the rear. I will probably have to trim the actuator bracket and bend the heat shield for it to clear the T4 bracket. The part circled in the picture is to hold the Drive Pressure Sensor which I plan to mount elsewhere.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...c3e0fdf4de.jpg
So to answer your questions about the y-pipe directly, I am planning on a minor reshaping of the upper portion that connects to the CAC pipe. A simple dent is easiest but not the best thing for flow. I'm thinking the part that has to clear the actuator will be a flattened oval being careful to maintain the same cross-sectional area as the round part, and then extending it so it sticks out over the passenger VC a little more to give room for the boot and clamp to clear the actuator also. That means I will have to trim the CAC tube and silver solder on a new anti hose pop off bead.

Geez that's a lot of work now that I have typed this all out. Anybody want to buy a VGT/VNT housing?

KubotaOrange76 07-01-2020 06:08 AM

Time for a 1 or 2” body lift?:-down
reduce your suspension lift to compensate?



FordTruckNoob 07-01-2020 07:57 AM


Originally Posted by KubotaOrange76
Time for a 1 or 2” body lift?:-down
reduce your suspension lift to compensate?


Hmmm, I would rather not go down this route if I can help it.

Sous 07-01-2020 08:54 AM

I know you are not in the same ballpark regarding injectors or turbo, but most of us did not use the CSD Y-pipe mounting bracket.

If you could leave the bracket off, would that give you enough clearance for the VGT?

@countrycar , did you use the bracket? I ask because your build is closer to FTN's build than most of the others on here.


FordTruckNoob 07-01-2020 08:57 AM


Originally Posted by Sous (Post 19359025)
I know you are not in the same ballpark regarding injectors or turbo, but most of us did not use the CSD Y-pipe mounting bracket.

If you could leave the bracket off, would that give you enough clearance for the VGT?

@countrycar , did you use the bracket? I ask because your build is closer to FTN's build than most of the others on here.

It's the pipe itself that is contacting the actuator as it sits currently.

Sous 07-01-2020 09:01 AM


Originally Posted by FordTruckNoob (Post 19359034)
It's the pipe itself that is contacting the actuator as it sits currently.

That is what I thought you were saying in a previous post, but just wanted to be sure.

Interesting and highly anticipated build you have going on.

Ridedan2 07-01-2020 12:28 PM

Noob you may want to look into getting a bead roller as opposed to silver solder, or have a shop slap a bead on your CAC pipe.

Sous 07-01-2020 01:44 PM

I had a shop weld a bead around the IC pipes when I did my install. I believe that with the 5" boot to the turbo has contributed to me having zero blow offs.

Dan V 07-01-2020 02:52 PM

Noob...look here.

https://vibrantperformance.com/catal...php?cPath=1250

SkySkiJason 07-01-2020 04:45 PM


Originally Posted by Sous (Post 19359577)
I had a shop weld a bead around the IC pipes when I did my install. I believe that with the 5" boot to the turbo has contributed to me having zero blow offs.

A piece of wire tacked to the pipe would be fine for this. Easier and better than solder or a weld bead.

countrycar 07-01-2020 06:55 PM


Originally Posted by Sous (Post 19359025)
I know you are not in the same ballpark regarding injectors or turbo, but most of us did not use the CSD Y-pipe mounting bracket.

If you could leave the bracket off, would that give you enough clearance for the VGT?

@countrycar , did you use the bracket? I ask because your build is closer to FTN's build than most of the others on here.

No sir I did not use the bracket.

FordTruckNoob 07-02-2020 05:08 AM


Originally Posted by Dan V (Post 19359658)

Those are nice but oh so spendy. It's like jewelry for gearheads.


Originally Posted by SkySkiJason (Post 19359832)
A piece of wire tacked to the pipe would be fine for this. Easier and better than solder or a weld bead.

That's what I was thinking when I said silver soldered but your point is well taken.

FordTruckNoob 07-08-2020 05:42 AM

Apologies for the lack of updates. I have been preoccupied with replacing the home's HVAC system after it crapped out. I am in the process of editing the video of my baseline 38R run. Trying to synchronize video and data from disparate sources is quite the headache.

Sous 07-08-2020 07:49 AM


Originally Posted by FordTruckNoob (Post 19370011)
Apologies for the lack of updates. I have been preoccupied with replacing the home's HVAC system after it crapped out. I am in the process of editing the video of my baseline 38R run. Trying to synchronize video and data from disparate sources is quite the headache.

The actual install of the T4/SXE was 10 times easier than creating the video of the install of the T4/SXE.

We look forward to updates when you have them.

FordTruckNoob 07-10-2020 11:14 AM

A video of my baseline for the SXE/T4 setup to be compared to. EBP data from FORScan is super noisy which is why the gauge is flickering so much. This is the one and only time I will let the EGT get that high. I usually back out of it when it hits 1200.

Sous 07-10-2020 11:51 AM

Holy crap look at that EGT gauge go!

Wow...

Despite the boost and RPM climbing, the EGT continues to climb to 1600 where the gauge is pegged.

I think you will be very pleased with the new SXE turbo and hopefully the VGT/VNT is a great performer too.

On a side note, I really like the gauge overlay that you used. I should have done that for my gauges when I was creating some of my videos...

ESwift 07-10-2020 12:04 PM

You're not going to miss that 38r one tiny little bit once you get your conversion finished up!


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