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No START and Loosing power under Load P1211*Need help please
Hi guys, a few weeks ago I posted how I broke down in central CA. pulling a 24' enclosed trailer on a steep mountain road at 1am with no shoulder. Luckily 10 minutes later I got it to go one more mile to a shoulder area and waited it out until daybreak. I made it off the mountain safely and found a good diesel mechanic that sqeezed me in and checked things out. Backing up a day, I was loosing power under heavy load and to me, it felt like a fuel problem. I replaced the fuel filter and installed a new fuel pump. Still doing the same thing I thought it may be the stock in tank fuel filters that always clog. My tank has never been dropped and the Excursion has 324k miles on it. I took 16' of 3/8" fuel line, ran it in the fill tube into the tank, made a u turn and ran it along the frame and hooked up to the new fuel pump. It ran good on flat ground, until I hit the steep mountain road at 1am....fast forward to off the mountain.
The mechanic did a Buzz test and 6 injectors were good and 2 were a little weak. The injectors are the original ones, however I replaced the o-rings a few years ago. He recommended I do the following, which I did right away.
Replace the CPS with a Motorcraft unit
Replace the ICP sensor with a Motorcraft unit
Replace the ICP pigtail since there was oil on it from a previous bad one
Rebuild the fuel pressure regulator with a Ford one
Got back on the road and it still was loosing power on some steep hills and setting off P1211 code. . The steepest grade coming home near Ventura I made it with no issues, then 1-2 miles going downhill, light came on and P1211 again and loosing power again. Made it back home in So. Cal. after 7.5 days when it should have been a 2 day trip (I felt like Gilligan). A week before I did my trip I replaced the IPR valve with a Motorcraft one. Engine is basically stock with an Adrenalin HPOP. 2000 Excursion John Woods Auto. trans. 2 WD.
After getting back home I got MX+ bluetooth adapter and downloaded Torque Pro.. I have been getting used to it and learning more and more each day. I did the Swamps HPOP test by going on the freeway; flat ground (no trailer) and at 60 flooring it up to 90mph and the HPOP was 2700-2800 on the 3 runs that I did...IPR at 90mph was 41, 45, and 47. Then I found the steepest street near my house, got a running start and floored it and my speed at the top of the hill was 65-70; my HPOP was 2500-2600 but the IPR was maxing out at 64.2 and feeling like it was ready to stumble and oil temp was 202-205. On normal driving (no trailer) it ran ok 70 mph IPR 27..HPOP 1600...2k RPM; .....at hot idle IPR 10..HPOP 475;
Then a day or two later NO START. Cranking fast; tach moves when cranking (so new CPS is good); unplugged the ICP (didn't help); haven't checked fuel pressure yet, I just received my fittings and shrader valves from Diesel O rings and will check key on and cranking, since I can't check WOT presently; checked my grounds and found pass side battery to block was super loose, tightened it up and didn't make any difference. The WTS light comes on, so PCM may be OK. Tonight I pulled the PCM and looked at it and the plug had a dark spot near the center (I will attach a picture). After I got back from my No Cal. trip I called XDP and talked to one of their tech guys in Vegas named Chris who is super knowledgeable and spent 30 min. after closing time to help me. Since there was a chance (and still is) that the IDM (Injector Drive Module) was bad Chris suggested to test it by disconnecting the driver side valve cover harness with the engine running and if the engine stopped then the IDM is probably bad and if the engine is still running then it is probably good; since this places a huge load on it (like pulling a steep hill with a loaded trailer).. I did the test and the engine stayed running, so the IDM is probably good. In case I have multiple problems at the same time, tonight I switched the GP relay with a good used one and still did not start. The oil has quite a few miles on it, so I will change the oil and filter tomorrow and see if that helps anything. With the Toque Pro app the only weird reading was the ICP voltage which has always stayed on - 2.6. It was not part of the powerstroke download, I downloaded the ICP voltage gauge from DT Ron youtube video. It should be .16-.28 according to Ron. It has never changed and even when there is no connection to the bluetooth it still reads negative 2.6...so not sure if it downloaded ok or not????
I don't mind spending money if I have to, but I don't want to replace good parts. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Ron Miller
Yes, oil level is full...One thing that I left out..the first day it would not start, I plugged in the block heater for 45 minutes and it started up...a few days later and this trick did not help out though???? I will change oil and filter today and check cranking fuel pressure and see if anything changes...thanks, Ron
just my thoughts as i was reading your excellent play by play and what I would do next.
1. if you mentioned it i missed it but if you are chipped or altered pcm fueling strategy go back to stock and eliminate the tuner as a suspect.
2. inspect the icp and Ipr wiring all the way back to the 42 pin connector, suspect areas are any place the harness splits off a branch, the gap in the plastic covering leave the wires susceptible to chaffing. especially near the turbo.
3. fuel pressure check furing cranking is minimum 50psi
what are your ICP pressures while cranking during the no start ?
4. confirm voltage during cranking should be min 10v at GPR
5. confirm icp is at least 500 psi during cranking
6. confirm RPMs are at least 180 during cranking
1. Stock PCM...I tried to install a Hydra 3 years ago and the car would not start when I installed it, so I had to remove it and never got around to re-installing it. Probably due to the PATS that the 2000 Excursion has the the trucks dont..??? Hopefully will get it installed...would love to see more power and possibly better mileage.
2. I have not inspected the wires all the way back...I can do that tomorrow. If a wire was bad would it only screw up under heavy load or just intermittently ??
3. Fuel pressure when cranking...I was working on that tonight and just stopped...will finish in the morning...I have the Diesel o rings 90 degree fittings to thread into the rear of the fuel bowl and they recommend to grind the fitting to be able to thread it in without hitting the bowl extension piece (drivers side) that appears to do nothing. After grinding the fitting more and more and maybe getting too thin, it makes more sense to grind the alum. piece sticking out that does nothing, so I can get at least 4 threads into the fuel bowl threads.So I will do that when I get up tomorrow and check. I am putting a 90 degree fitting with Schrader valves before and after the filter so I can quickly check either position. My new gauge is over 6 feet long so when i get it running (someday soon) I can check at WOT pulling a hill with my trailer behind me. If it drops I have the 3 new springs from D.O.R.'s
4. Years ago I replaced my glow plug controller box (thinking it was the relay). I purchased one of those XL Stancor relays that I never used, thinking it is only for the trucks and not the excursions, but I guess I can install that....I will check the voltage at the relay on cranking...which terminal do I check it at??
5. ICP during cranking: I changed the oil and filter tonight and then without trying to start it, my bluetooth connector and torque pro on my phone started working for the first time in a few days...?? Maybe because I removed the PCM yesterday?? I think I checked afterward and it was still not working?? Anyway during cranking the IPR was at 64.2 with HPOP at around 200-250 max. I disconnected the ICP connector and cranked on it again and it was at ICP 31.7 with 2300 HPOP and still did not start. I was alone so not sure if any smoke out the tailpipe or not?? will check tomorrow on that. I did a screenshot of both, and will attach below.
6. Not sure on my cranking RPM's....seems pretty good until I start to run down the batteries. Will see if my torque pro will show cranking RPM's...
A FUNNY STORY ON MY BREAKDOWN IN BAKERSFIELD, CA.....Since you read my novel all the way through, I can give you a good laugh. On my second night in Bakersfield parked behind an Autozone (the other 2 nights were at Walmart parking lot). I was done working on my Excursion around 1 or 2am. I picked up all my diesel soaked paper towels and trash and started walking over to the Autozone dumpster. It was dark, super foggy, cold (for me) and super quiet...I was the only one around. I get up to the dumpster steel doors and just before touching the door I hear from inside the dumpster area "HELP ME, I AM LOCKED IN HERE"!! I jumped since it scared the sh _ _ out of me. A homeless guy was locked in the gated area for many hours and had a bad leg, so he could not climb out. I opened up the door and he rolled out with his shopping cart thanking me over and over. He was getting claustrophobic in there and he was a little cold. I asked him if he wanted any food and he declined saying he had some chicken and something else, but thanks anyway and thank you again you saved my life! I was getting kind of sleepy, but that woke me up right away!! One of the highlights of my trip.
i will spend more time on this tonight but the red flag to me id your variable ICP reading.
fwiw. during cranking it must reach/exceed 500 psi.
at this pressure the oil side of the injectors activate and that is what drives the fuel load...... no 500 psi no fuel delivered into cylinder.
your torque pro should give you a volt reading during cranking. or just watch the stock bolt meter to ser if it is close. ( the pcm works down to 7 volts but the engine typically turn over fast enough... 180 rpms is your target ).
Agreed. Your IPR is showing maxed out but your ICP is way too low. (ignore the reading with it unplugged. That's a default value sent by the PCM)
At this point I'd be focusing in the IPR, IPR wiring, or HPOP. That's pretty low pressure to be a failed injector o-ring, but if you can find the parts to block off one side of the HPOP at a time, you can crank the truck and see if there's any difference. (you won't see any ICP reading if you block off the driver side rail)
GOT IT RUNNING!! This truck is driving me crazy!! A few days ago, I changed the oil and filter. Still would not start. I tried plugging in a good used Glow Plug Module (my Excursion does not have a relay that the trucks have)...did not make any difference...I replaced the original one and put some dielectric grease on it...Still would not start. The next day I installed a mechanical fuel pressure gauge off the fuel bowl...went to crank it to check cranking fuel pressure and it started up!! What?? Makes no sense. Also my Torque Pro started working again. ?? So I did some test runs on a steep hill very close to my house. I did it truck only; with empty enclosed 24 foot trailer and with a car in the trailer. My fuel pressure most of the time was 56-58 and under heavy load the lowest it got was 50-51. I purchased a billet fuel pressure regulator and will install it with the black 70 psi spring, even though it may not help with my current problems. On many of my steep runs (especially the longer ones) I floored it and the IPR number would climb to 64 and 64.2 then HPOP starts dropping and loosing power, etc. Then this morning I went to start it and it would not start and for the first time on cranking the IPR went up to 64.2. Cranking speed was around 150rpm. I unplugged the ICP and the IPR was 31.7 with 2300 HPOP and still no start. Batteries were starting to get weak (11.0 volts), so I knew I only had 1 or 2 more tries before the cranking speed would be way too low. So I sprayed some starting fluid in (a few days ago when it would not start, starting fluid did not help at all)....I sprayed it and it started and ran for 3-5 seconds. So I kept spraying to keep it running and after one minute or so, it staying running and drove ok and kept starting fine.
AIH ISSUE: Backing up in time, when I broke down on the mountain a few weeks ago, the next morning when the tow truck driver stopped and helped me, one thing I did not mention was the AIH (Air Intake Heater) wire started smoking really bad and we removed the positive wire. A few weeks before that, my mechanic checked my codes and the AIH code came up and I ignored it since I was more focusing on P1211 codes. So tonight I went to pull the AIH out and install a plug with the proper ground strap from Riff Raff Diesel. I pulled the plug and the entire heater element (basically everything that goes in the pipe) was missing. Could it have broke off or possibly a previous owner chopped it off instead of buying a block off plug??? If it broke off, would it go through the engine and cause major damage?? Or should I pull the Y pipe (or whatever it is called) and see if it is sitting in the intake runner?? I have driven over 500 miles since the breakdown on the mountain experience...What would cause the wire to start smoking and burn off the insulation?? I will attach a picture of the heater element that I removed...My ICP Voltage is still negative 2.6 volts according to my Torque Pro gauge...it has never gone up or down...not sure if this gauge was installed properly. I just downloaded the Car Diagnostic Pro so I can do my own buzz test...maybe this one has a ICP voltage gauge??
I have a Mustang in my trailer waiting to be delivered near Yosemite, but I am terrified to hit the road (especially with Mountains involved) without figuring out what my main problem is...I will check the wires from the ICP and IPR to the 42 pin connector tomorrow for sure. On the 42 pin connector do you guys recommend re-installing it dry; dielectric grease or the stuff from Home Depot that is conductive grease (not sure of the name, I think I read it on this website??) Also same question on the PCM. I have never touched the IDM, but since I may in the near future, same question on that connection also.
Thanks again for everyones help...it is greatly appreciated!! Ron Miller
i did not read through your entire last post due to time but a huge red flag.
do not ever use starting fluid on any diesel that has glow plugs.
a warm glow plug will ignite the starting fluid way before the piston gets near TDC and can/will do severe damage. remember a diesel is designed to ignite the fuel with compression. you start prematurely igniting highly flammable liquid on the compression stroke something is gonna start happening and it aint gonna be your engine working correctly
broken rings
broken pistons
bent or broken rods
put enough in there and you can blow a hole right through a block.
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A FUNNY STORY ON MY BREAKDOWN IN BAKERSFIELD, CA.....Since you read my novel all the way through, I can give you a good laugh. 
