Go Back  Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Diesel > 1999 - 2003 7.3L Power Stroke Diesel
Reload this Page >

2002 E450...7.3....dying while driving...WHY???

Notices
1999 - 2003 7.3L Power Stroke Diesel  
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

2002 E450...7.3....dying while driving...WHY???

 
  #1  
Old 08-11-2011, 01:07 PM
SunBum
SunBum is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The ATL
Posts: 97
SunBum is starting off with a positive reputation.
2002 E450...7.3....dying while driving...WHY???

Ok....we have been through the list of the normal fixes. NO LUCK!

Its starts and idles without a porblem. If you drive it it normally goes about 5 miles and just shuts down. Sometimes it takes 30 min. to start again...sometimes it takes 3 hours. You can then drive it for 5 or 10 more miles and it shuts down again. Any thoughts would be appreciated!

See below.

E450 7.3 225,000 miles

Wont stay running for more than 5 to 10 miles at normal driving speeds
Will normally idle all day long with no problem
Cuts off sporadically but seems to happen more in turns.
It wont start back for 30 minutes to 3 hours.
We have not strapped fuel pressure gauges to it.
Its not throwing any codes that are leading us to anything but the ECM and a new one didn’t fix it.

Newly rebuild transmission.....we did not have this problem UNTIL the transmission was rebuilt. It never cut off before we replaced it but did it coming back from the shop. May not be related but it ironic!

Oil level is full
Fuel tank has been replaced once and cleaned recently
Fuel tank sending unit has been removed and cleaned with no change
Fuel pump has been replaced and is working with no change
Fuel filter has been replaced with no change
ICP has been replaced with no change
Main computer ECM was replaced with no change. We put the original back in it.
Cam shaft position sensor has been replaced 3 times with a genuine Ford replacement.

Ideas?
Something transmission related?
Bad high pressure pump? This was bad on another of our trucks that displayed similar symptoms.

We have an AE scanner, but we haven't scanned this truck yet (will do next week) anything in particular I should look for?

Thanks for the help!
 
  #2  
Old 08-11-2011, 01:11 PM
Brother Les's Avatar
Brother Les
Brother Les is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BoCoMo
Posts: 2,127
Brother Les is a splendid one to beholdBrother Les is a splendid one to beholdBrother Les is a splendid one to beholdBrother Les is a splendid one to beholdBrother Les is a splendid one to beholdBrother Les is a splendid one to beholdBrother Les is a splendid one to behold
drain the fuel bowl, cycle it on and does it fill up alright.

unplug the fuel bowl heater on the back of the fuel bowl, itmay have a short in it.

Does it have good oil pressure to open up the injectors.


When it dies, does it seem fuel starved and slowly dies or does it shut off as if it is an electrical problem at once?
 
  #3  
Old 08-11-2011, 01:52 PM
bama29fan's Avatar
bama29fan
bama29fan is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Opelika, AL
Posts: 1,411
bama29fan has a very good reputation on FTE.bama29fan has a very good reputation on FTE.bama29fan has a very good reputation on FTE.bama29fan has a very good reputation on FTE.
code would really help point you in the right direction.

shot in the dark= could it be the low pressure oil pump not able to keep up? have you checked the oil level in the HPOP resevoir?
 
  #4  
Old 08-11-2011, 02:12 PM
tdpower's Avatar
tdpower
tdpower is offline
Postmaster
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,340
tdpower is a splendid one to beholdtdpower is a splendid one to beholdtdpower is a splendid one to beholdtdpower is a splendid one to beholdtdpower is a splendid one to beholdtdpower is a splendid one to beholdtdpower is a splendid one to behold
This is a good "No Start" trouble shooting guide.
__________________________________________________ _____________________________

Originally posted by Dave (Golfer) on PSN 01-20-2010 Thanks Dave

its nevvvvver the oil pump...seriously.

I see sooooooooooooooo many guys (dealerships included) that see "no ICP" or some ICP codes in a scantool...and toss HPOP's on truck after truck...when it is either an IPR or an injector (poppet valve) issue.

If you hook up the scantool, and monitor ICP (psi) while cranking...you'll see IPR% (duty cycle) climb & climb 15% key on..20, 30, 40, 55%, higher..the increase in IPR% means that the PCM is requesting ICP pressure to increase...

so ALSO watch ICP(psi) and if it comes up to only 180-250psi or so and stays there...then it's the IPR hung open (bypassing oil back to the oil pan through the front cover) such that only minimal psi can be made.

If the ICP is VERY low...like under 60psi...then it could be injector (poppets) pissing oil (under the VC's)..which is typical for injector with more than 180-200k miles.

if ICP climbs above 550-600..then it will probably climb much higher (15-1800+) and it is most likely going to be an electrical issue.

If his scantool will not connect then its a PCM or chip issue (remove the chip if you have one & haven't removed it yet)

if the scantool connects AND you have >600ICP then look at the datastream for a RPM reading.

if the scantool picks up an RPM signal and it seems accurate....then the CPS is good.

If no RPM on the scantool, replace CPS.

If you have RPM (on scantool, not just on dash)...AND have ICP >600, then run an (key on, eng off) injector "buzz test"...

the buzz test is nothing more than a continuity test from the PCM, through the IDM, and to & from each injector solenoid.

LISTEN to each inj buzz....do they all sound the same? nice & crisp?

if the test passes (and you audibly heard them all)...then wiring is good, IDM is good, HPOP is good...CPS is good...then it could be a fuel issue. gasoline, water, etc...

I wouldn't mention it if I haven't seen it myself numerous times...

any chance this no start began with 10-20miles after a fillup?

holler if you need help troubleshooting. take care~ Dave
__________________________________________________ ______________________

Hears some good info also:

7.3L Powerstroke Starting Requirements:
Battery voltage a minimum of 10.5 volts while cranking
RPM at least 100 while cranking. If no tach movement suspect CPS
If you have a scan tool ICP should be 500 PSI ± 25 PSI and fuel
pulse width should be 1 to 6 milliseconds.

The above requirements assume the following:

Correct oil level, oil type and pressure
Correct type of fuel
Correct fuel pressure (53 PSI per Ford spec)
Sufficient air supply (clean air filter & unobstructed intake)
Proper oil level in HPOP reservoir (1 to ¾ inch from top)
Proper glow plug relay and glow plug operation (in cold weather)
Proper injection timing (PCM controlled)
 
  #5  
Old 08-11-2011, 08:10 PM
truckeemtnfords
truckeemtnfords is offline
Postmaster
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Truckee, CA
Posts: 2,640
truckeemtnfords has much to be proud oftruckeemtnfords has much to be proud oftruckeemtnfords has much to be proud oftruckeemtnfords has much to be proud oftruckeemtnfords has much to be proud oftruckeemtnfords has much to be proud oftruckeemtnfords has much to be proud oftruckeemtnfords has much to be proud of
Mine was very similar and like you changed cps twice, same problem. I replaced the IPR and all is good on the mountain again.
 
  #6  
Old 08-11-2011, 09:30 PM
Awingandachair
Awingandachair is offline
New User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Monroe N.C.
Posts: 1
Awingandachair is starting off with a positive reputation.
My 99 F350 did that. Droped the fuel tank,cleaned the crud from around the fuel pick up and all was fine.
 
  #7  
Old 08-11-2011, 10:39 PM
carltonwebb's Avatar
carltonwebb
carltonwebb is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,022
carltonwebb has a great reputation on FTE.carltonwebb has a great reputation on FTE.carltonwebb has a great reputation on FTE.carltonwebb has a great reputation on FTE.carltonwebb has a great reputation on FTE.
When it cuts off, do u get a wts light when u turn the key to run? I am kinda thinking pcm relay or something along that lines.
 
  #8  
Old 08-11-2011, 11:19 PM
diesel-fitter-bum01's Avatar
diesel-fitter-bum01
diesel-fitter-bum01 is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Battle Creek, NE
Posts: 1,459
diesel-fitter-bum01 has a good reputation on FTE.diesel-fitter-bum01 has a good reputation on FTE.
Any luck with these suggestions? Fuel bowl screen at the bottom,or in tank screens.
 
  #9  
Old 08-17-2011, 07:57 AM
SunBum
SunBum is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The ATL
Posts: 97
SunBum is starting off with a positive reputation.
Thanks for the all thoughts...

I scanned the truck/van (AE) using the procedures above, and nothing jumped out at me. ***edited to add - the truck has been sitting so now it will crank. So, when running this scan, the truck would crank. The only way to get it to a 'no-start' condition is to drive it down the road (won't die while idling) and let it die. Do I need to run the scan while in a 'no-start' condition???

The codes that were logged were; 1280, 0113, 0733, 1209, 0603, 1211 & 0782. Mostly ICP related (which we changed) and a couple tranny related items (0733: Gear 3 ratio & 0782: 2-3 Shift Malfunction). Could these tranny items have anything to do with our problem?

What about 0603: ICM KAM error? What's that mean?

Otherwise, here are some values;

KOEO, KOER tests came out clean. Cylinder contribution - 0266: Cylinder #2 circuit contribution / balance fault.

ICP PSI & Duty Cycle
Key on: ~32 PSI & 14.84%
Cranking: ~1800+ PSI & ~64%
Idle: ~550 PSI & ~8%
~2000 RPM: ~1250 PSI & ~19%

Do those values seem OK?

I ran the same tests on my Excursion and got these values;
Key on: ~4 PSI much lower than above& 14.84%
Cranking: ~2000+ PSI & ~33% lower than above
Idle: ~480 PSI & ~11%
~2000 RPM: ~1000 PSI & ~18%

By the way, when the truck dies, it just shuts off. No sputtering or notice, just turns off. We had another truck that was acting very much the same and the mechanic said it was the HPOP. They 'supposedly' replaced the HPOP and $2K later, that truck is fixed...
 
  #10  
Old 08-17-2011, 10:18 AM
bama29fan's Avatar
bama29fan
bama29fan is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Opelika, AL
Posts: 1,411
bama29fan has a very good reputation on FTE.bama29fan has a very good reputation on FTE.bama29fan has a very good reputation on FTE.bama29fan has a very good reputation on FTE.
have you checked the HPOP resevoir level when it cuts out?

you have a couple of codes for oil pressure being low, not sure if/how the trans code will affect the shut down?????

dont have much else to offer right now....

when you say it starts after it has been sitting....will it start right up after sitting or is it after several cranking attempts or extended cranking?
 
  #11  
Old 08-17-2011, 10:35 AM
shacks87's Avatar
shacks87
shacks87 is offline
Senior User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Rock Hill,SC
Posts: 218
shacks87 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.shacks87 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Sounds like the IPR is sticking. Check the tin nut on the back and see if it is tight.
 
  #12  
Old 08-17-2011, 11:15 AM
DavidE
DavidE is offline
Senior User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Lower Mainland BC
Posts: 225
DavidE is starting off with a positive reputation.
2002 E450...7.3....dying while driving...WHY???

TD power quoted Dave the Golpher who said at the end
"any chance this no start began with 10-20miles after a fillup?
holler if you need help troubleshooting. take care~ Dave"
Why is problem occurring 10-20 miles after a fill up an issue and what is the fix?
Thanks
 
  #13  
Old 08-17-2011, 11:21 AM
PaysonPSD's Avatar
PaysonPSD
PaysonPSD is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Payson, AZ
Posts: 9,549
PaysonPSD has a superb reputationPaysonPSD has a superb reputationPaysonPSD has a superb reputationPaysonPSD has a superb reputationPaysonPSD has a superb reputationPaysonPSD has a superb reputationPaysonPSD has a superb reputationPaysonPSD has a superb reputationPaysonPSD has a superb reputationPaysonPSD has a superb reputationPaysonPSD has a superb reputation
With the PCM commanding 64% duty cycle while cranking it may be electrical. Closely check the IPR solenoid connector & wiring. I would also swap solenoids between the EX and truck so see what happens.

Follow the trouble shooting guide Grant posted, post #4. It will help you narrow it down.
 
  #14  
Old 08-17-2011, 12:40 PM
SunBum
SunBum is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The ATL
Posts: 97
SunBum is starting off with a positive reputation.
Thanks again for the help

I haven't checked the reservoir, yet. I will.

When the van shuts off, it has to sit 20 minutes or so then it will crank right back up without issue, but it will shut off again in short order.

I'm not yet familiar with the IPR (where is it? ) but I will check the wiring and nut as suggested here.

I used Golfer's post to run the scan on the van and it seemed to point to something electrical???
 
  #15  
Old 08-17-2011, 01:39 PM
bama29fan's Avatar
bama29fan
bama29fan is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Opelika, AL
Posts: 1,411
bama29fan has a very good reputation on FTE.bama29fan has a very good reputation on FTE.bama29fan has a very good reputation on FTE.bama29fan has a very good reputation on FTE.
look here....post #3 has a pic of all the sensors.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...pr-sensor.html
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: 2002 E450...7.3....dying while driving...WHY???


Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.