gonna be doing a 4v head on 400 ford and was wondering if anybody had any problems with detonation near 10 to 1 compression. cast iron head and flat top piston. building engine to run on atleast a 87/88 octane for daily use. thanks from wyoming.

 

Do you have open chambered or closed chambered 4v heads ? You will get no where around 10:1 with flat tops and open chambers

 

On the compression its at 11.069 on paper with a 0 decked block. If I go .060 gskt 0 deck it at 10.533 compression. .005 in the hole and .060 gskt its at 10.421 compression. was looking at below 10 to 1 compression. Might have to leave piston around .030 in hole to get the compression I need. Waiting on my cam guy to get back but he's at enginemasters and I believe he got in the top 5 with a 400m chi headed engine. mpg heads does some good work. this truck will be do some light towing on occasion. I have open chambered heads D3ze heads. Deported the heads and waiting on my intake to get here 351cleveland air gap. I've been hearing that these chambers are prone to detonation and was curious to find out why and what I can do to prevent. I pull the mtns a lot and will be a issue on a hot summer day. I have these heads and need to be used on something and this truck will have a 400cobrajet engine sounds cool. their are better heads out their but have some cool parts to back this head up and just working the problem and my ears are always open.

 

I am curious about this too...I am planning a similar combo, except I have the closed chamber heads. I plan on using Tim's pistons, but can't decide how much is too much. With the zero deck pistons, 9.5ish is easy and likely very safe. This is what I originally planned - as this is 100% street/fun truck. But the gear-head in me wonders how much(if any) would I be giving up (power) by not being closer to 10 or 10+. A lot of it is cam dependent...I have a custom hydraulic roller that was spec'd for a 9.5 engine. There, I talked myself out of it...good talk.

 

With all the tweeking you are planning to do you probably will get there. Somehow I thought you were building a cleveland.

 

4v head D3ze openchamber. about 73 cc. Stepped into a deal at a machineshop, customer bailed on a job. 400m with factory rods and cleveland piston flat top one valve relief. friend is just wanting to break even on deal at shop. the block isn't decked yet. figured I would finish paying off and do some cool stuff with the parts I have laying around. CJ 4v heads just sounds cool and always wanted to build and see what happens. But be smart about this. Deported heads/epoxy runners. this really helps on the downturns into throat of intake. Definetly a upgrade compared to the factory big port set up. will have heads flowed to make sure even on flow. Should make for a stout pullin 400 ford. All factory lookin except for intake and spacer plated/intake. 750 quick fuel annular carb for now. I guess I'll wait on scott from MPG heads to help me make a decision on compression. He's a high elevation kinda guya and really knows his fords. Lots of dyno time. he placed well at competition in the top 5 I believe with his 400 injected ford.

 

google up 400m 4v stroker cleveland. MPG heads was involved with a build from mild to wild and lots of info to read on 400m. great engine to build and different cams and heads and carb stuff. great read and scott/mpgheads does some awesome cams. thundermaker camresearch. He cuts them himself in englewood colorado. tell them robert from wyoming sent you if you buy something. He's not a big company just a independent with a shop with soem really cool tools. CNC and just about anything else you can think of. been around about 15yrs in business that I know of.

 

Detonation is a problem if you have a poor combustion chamber design. The stock 400 heads have the poor design and would not be good for a 10 to 1 motor, but I think the 4v heads are good. Personally I think your wasting your time on the 4v heads, and should use 2v heads with the bigger chambers, so your compression is more like 9.5 to 1. You can always use a thicker head gasket too. The stock 2v heads are perfect and don't need epoxy, and may just need a bit of porting in the exhaust port. What kind of power are you looking for. Personally I would get 2v aluminum heads and compinsate the cost with selling the 4v heads. Aluminum 2v heads with the smaller valves will flow perfect, and the aluminum will allow you to keep the 10 to 1 compression. You can get them for a pretty good deal anymore. I am interested in how you go anyway you choose, cause I am looking to build another ford 400 with aluminum heads and more compression. Have you read mustangs and fast fords article about their 400 build up. they made 265hp and 415tq with stock heads cleveland one valve relief pistons, a 500 cfm holley two barrel, stock cam and intake, and a set of headers.

 

I do follow the top engine builders, builds every year.

 

This thread isn't dead is it?

 

just waiting on scott/mpg. One of my paticular situations most of you don't have is elevation. I live at 4000' and play at higher often. 7000'. My air density isn't as good as sea level air or near sea level air. So I can get away with a little more compression than a flat lander. mile high elevation is the norm or close to it. On the enginemaster stuff. I had a idea on a engine years ago and scott helped me make it happen for my application. The motor kick aZZ for my huntin/mountain truck. He nailed it on what I was wanting. flowed heads and solid cam and everything fitted/flowed together. Been running the truck for yrs and people that see this truck run down the highway and crawlin the mountains/towing are amazed. truck has a nice tranny and built converter for application from hughes performance. will be doing a similar motor in a 400 application but just have these parts and gonna use them. Not lookin at anything else because these heads will get the job done with a little work. Chi heads are the way to go if gonna spend some money. I like a small port/big valve head for this application and can deport these heads and achieve this. Catch you guys later and keep you informed on the parts. On the hrspwr I wanting to make about 1 hrspwr per cube at my elevation. for me to make a 400 hrspwr motor I have to build a engine close to 500hrspwr because of elevation situation. For those who are not familiar with elevation derates it sucks but this is what I have to deal with. 3% to 5% loss per thousand ft on a well tuned engine. So if a engine is rated at 500 hrspwr at 5000' you can have a 25% loss in power depending on what kind of air you have that day. OUCH on the hrspwr. 500 hrspwr now at 385 hrspwr. this being honest with myself and makeing a 1 hrspwr per cube is difficult to do at pump gas application at my elevation and we have dry air most of the time especially when the air gets bitterly cold. catch you later and have a nice day!

 

to make the numbers I want the 2v heads will take some work. They do make good pwr but gonna have to spend the money on adjustable valvetrain if I go this way. my 4v heads already have been done. Deport and epoxy is easy to do compared to grinding on a set of 2v heads. I like a head with big valves and small ports and seems to work well. the rest is done in the camshaft. used to race the 400 fords back in the day and never did a 4v headed motor but seen some and they ran well but didn't know any tricks back then like I do now. gonna be a interesting build and good hyd roller custom cut for application. catch you later and I'll keep you updated!

 

was out riding my fourwheeler today 500cc quest can am. Did a elevation change of around 4000' and could really feel the power drop off hard on the way back up the mountian. 9800' down to around 4500'. I do drive my huntin truck in these applications also. Not enough air and to much restriction through carb. Needed more compression also. now I need to build my 400 ford to work in similar application gonna be fun!!

 

I'm in montana, so I know what you mean about elevation. I drove my truck to helena to pick up a camper, and the pass was close to 8000 ft, and my truck runs pretty dang good at 3300 where I am at, but up that high I could only go 55 at 6% grade, and a 1800 lb truck camper on back. I am looking to build a even better 400 than the one I have right now, to take advantage of the trick I have learned too. I like procomp, afd, chi, and trickflow heads for the 400, but I think the new trickflows are the best for a truck app. they use both 2v and 4v design and blend them to make the perfect head. I personally want to turbo charge the 400, and have it make about 330hp with out boost, and make up for it with boost. I would have liked to have gone with a roller cam, but can't beat elgins rv came copy of the performer cam for 70.00 with lifters. The intake ports don't need work on 2v head, but more the exhaust do. Trickflow fixed this by raising the port to make it flow right. Glad to see more people building these motors though, and I hope to have a few in the garage corner, before the junkyards realize how much power they can make. Just for curiosity, what headers are you running, or gonna run. I need to get some bad for my truck and need to know what fit right. Thanks.