No Start - going through the tech folder
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Senior User
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From: Minnesota
No Start - going through the tech folder
I have a 2005 with 186,000 on it. Great truck and pretty flawless. Yesterday noticed after cold start(starts great cold) and started driving the tranny acted like it did not want to upshift unless I let off the gas. Drove to NAPA and when I went out to start it only turned over. Would not fire at all so Ileft truck. Went home, read through the tech folder on "no start" which is fantastic stuff. Next day went to troubleshoot truck in parking lot and tried to start first. Fires right up and I drove home. I'm spending today going through tech folder items to check. Any ideas?
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Senior User
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From: Minnesota
Can you explain the STC fitting for me and how to do the air leak test? I went through the wiring harnesses and while I see a lot of rubbing(scary to say the least!) I could not find any broken through. A couple of weeks ago I had two very long cranking episodes but it eventually started.
Cargo Master
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: AB/BC
The STC fitting at the pump is in this pic at the discharge bolt arrows. Page 14: 6.0L Power Stroke Features the air test is here Diesel Technician Society The 05 had issues at both areas that I mentioned there is an updated STC fitting.
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Senior User
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From: Minnesota
Wouldn't the low oil pressure throw a DTC saying low oil pressure versus the DTC I had which said "fuel injector low fuel pressure"? Thanks for all your help thus far!
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Fleet Owner
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The ICP pressure is oil pressure - high pressure oil is used to fire the injectors .... therefore it is called " fuel injection pressure". There are a few places that high pressure oil leaks can come from, but for a 2005, the most common is the STC.
Post Fiend
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Old Master Mark,
Remember when I had exactly the same problem over Spring?
Difficult hot start?
It never "coded", but it also refused to start...
Until it got fixed as per your prescription.
DTCs need to be carefully recorded, logged, and understood as one of the symptom set, but it is more often than not, not necessarily an accurate diagnostic.
Hence, I always verify the DTC with other means whenever possible --- be it manually running the test (if it is a sensor, that means tapping and reading the readings directly), checking intervening variables like wiring, connections, ruling out computer glitches, software error, and so on.
A good way to look at it is the Ford IDS probably have 10 millions lines of code in the "remote" field box.
Nobody outside of Ford knows how many lines of code their "back office" have.
I would guess easily 50 millions more lines of code, perhaps a lot more --- to support the field clients.
How many lines of code do you think OBDII has on your vehicle?
Rough guess, 1 million lines for the entire PCM / FICM /TCM / BCM, possibly a lot less if it is a pre 2003 model.
Code dedicated to diagnostics and testing in that lot?
Maybe 1/4, may be 1/2 max?
That is like a pocket 4 function calculator against a server farm of 30,000 servers when put against the IDS (hooked up to the Ford central system).
Sure, it tosses out interesting things --- but it is rudimentary, to say the least.
As an example:
There is not a single DTC that will tell you that a carbon particle has jammed open an intake / exhaust valve.
Remember when I had exactly the same problem over Spring?
Difficult hot start?
It never "coded", but it also refused to start...
Until it got fixed as per your prescription.
DTCs need to be carefully recorded, logged, and understood as one of the symptom set, but it is more often than not, not necessarily an accurate diagnostic.
Hence, I always verify the DTC with other means whenever possible --- be it manually running the test (if it is a sensor, that means tapping and reading the readings directly), checking intervening variables like wiring, connections, ruling out computer glitches, software error, and so on.
A good way to look at it is the Ford IDS probably have 10 millions lines of code in the "remote" field box.
Nobody outside of Ford knows how many lines of code their "back office" have.
I would guess easily 50 millions more lines of code, perhaps a lot more --- to support the field clients.
How many lines of code do you think OBDII has on your vehicle?
Rough guess, 1 million lines for the entire PCM / FICM /TCM / BCM, possibly a lot less if it is a pre 2003 model.
Code dedicated to diagnostics and testing in that lot?
Maybe 1/4, may be 1/2 max?
That is like a pocket 4 function calculator against a server farm of 30,000 servers when put against the IDS (hooked up to the Ford central system).
Sure, it tosses out interesting things --- but it is rudimentary, to say the least.
As an example:
There is not a single DTC that will tell you that a carbon particle has jammed open an intake / exhaust valve.
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Senior User
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Minnesota
Wow, well I've torn out most of my hair and am putting everything back together and heading to the Dealer to get scanned. You guys have helped a ton but its beyond my abilities at this point. Maybe, just maybe its something simple........
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,127
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Can you try this before you run off to the dealer?
Italian tune up the thing to eliminate a carbon jam in the intake / exhaust valve.
Carbon particle jams can be responsible for intermittent no start.
If it is constant no start hot --- it is more likely to be HPOP subsystem related.
Italian tune up the thing to eliminate a carbon jam in the intake / exhaust valve.
Carbon particle jams can be responsible for intermittent no start.
If it is constant no start hot --- it is more likely to be HPOP subsystem related.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,918
Likes: 3,636
Old Master Mark,
Remember when I had exactly the same problem over Spring?
Difficult hot start?
It never "coded", but it also refused to start...
Until it got fixed as per your prescription.
DTCs need to be carefully recorded, logged, and understood as one of the symptom set, but it is more often than not, not necessarily an accurate diagnostic.
Hence, I always verify the DTC with other means whenever possible --- be it manually running the test (if it is a sensor, that means tapping and reading the readings directly), checking intervening variables like wiring, connections, ruling out computer glitches, software error, and so on.
A good way to look at it is the Ford IDS probably have 10 millions lines of code in the "remote" field box.
Nobody outside of Ford knows how many lines of code their "back office" have.
I would guess easily 50 millions more lines of code, perhaps a lot more --- to support the field clients.
How many lines of code do you think OBDII has on your vehicle?
Rough guess, 1 million lines for the entire PCM / FICM /TCM / BCM, possibly a lot less if it is a pre 2003 model.
Code dedicated to diagnostics and testing in that lot?
Maybe 1/4, may be 1/2 max?
That is like a pocket 4 function calculator against a server farm of 30,000 servers when put against the IDS (hooked up to the Ford central system).
Sure, it tosses out interesting things --- but it is rudimentary, to say the least.
As an example:
There is not a single DTC that will tell you that a carbon particle has jammed open an intake / exhaust valve.
Remember when I had exactly the same problem over Spring?
Difficult hot start?
It never "coded", but it also refused to start...
Until it got fixed as per your prescription.
DTCs need to be carefully recorded, logged, and understood as one of the symptom set, but it is more often than not, not necessarily an accurate diagnostic.
Hence, I always verify the DTC with other means whenever possible --- be it manually running the test (if it is a sensor, that means tapping and reading the readings directly), checking intervening variables like wiring, connections, ruling out computer glitches, software error, and so on.
A good way to look at it is the Ford IDS probably have 10 millions lines of code in the "remote" field box.
Nobody outside of Ford knows how many lines of code their "back office" have.
I would guess easily 50 millions more lines of code, perhaps a lot more --- to support the field clients.
How many lines of code do you think OBDII has on your vehicle?
Rough guess, 1 million lines for the entire PCM / FICM /TCM / BCM, possibly a lot less if it is a pre 2003 model.
Code dedicated to diagnostics and testing in that lot?
Maybe 1/4, may be 1/2 max?
That is like a pocket 4 function calculator against a server farm of 30,000 servers when put against the IDS (hooked up to the Ford central system).
Sure, it tosses out interesting things --- but it is rudimentary, to say the least.
As an example:
There is not a single DTC that will tell you that a carbon particle has jammed open an intake / exhaust valve.
In this case, he got a low injection pressure DTC. I think it is highly likely that he actually does have oil pressures (high pressure side) that are low.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,127
Likes: 6
I didn't mean to say I didn't agree with you that the DTC's were OFTEN times sketchy. Clearly they are. Most of what I have seen is problems NOT throwing a code instead of DTC's that were flat out wrong. Anyway, you are certainly correct to say "Get confirming information where possible before spending any significant $$'s".
In this case, he got a low injection pressure DTC. I think it is highly likely that he actually does have oil pressures (high pressure side) that are low.
In this case, he got a low injection pressure DTC. I think it is highly likely that he actually does have oil pressures (high pressure side) that are low.
Mark
No misunderstanding here.
I have the greatest respect for your expertise --- and ALL THE FREE WORK YOU DO FOR US!!!!!
I was saying about DTCs a bit in jest!
You did note my comment re Air leak test (the gold standard)...
I am right on the page with you.
We do need (on another new thread) to have a chat about how spurious codes can be thrown when the root fault is somewhere else.
Remember I had codes for turbo underboost, EGR, etc.. that were all traced back to a few minor problems?
There is much to how poor the OBD is --- and how great techs like you, the old cheeze, mchan, and others know much better than the DTCs!
Respectfully,