Fuel Additive pro/con
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From: Corinth, TX
Fuel Additive pro/con
I've been noticing lately that my MPG depends greatly on where I buy fuel. None of the local truck stops or convenience store pumps have ratings posted, they just all say "ULSD". It seems that the local Allsup's has the best I've used so far (a not-so-local TA truck stop has been great too), and the local QuickTrip has the worst. I'm going *purely* based off of MPG per tank.
A week from today I'm heading out on a trip halfway across the US and back. I will fill up at mostly random truck stops along the way. I have no reliable way to know which ones are good or bad... so I'm looking to hedge my bets.
As far as diesel fuel additives go, what are the pros and cons of each? This being my first diesel, I don't have years of additive-buying experience to lean on like many of you do. My goals are mainly to improve MPG through increased lubricity and/or cetane rating. I would like to pick up several bottles of the same stuff to take with me, treating each tank of fuel in an attempt to "smooth out the curve" of bad to good fuel stops.
Any and all advice will be appreciated
A week from today I'm heading out on a trip halfway across the US and back. I will fill up at mostly random truck stops along the way. I have no reliable way to know which ones are good or bad... so I'm looking to hedge my bets.
As far as diesel fuel additives go, what are the pros and cons of each? This being my first diesel, I don't have years of additive-buying experience to lean on like many of you do. My goals are mainly to improve MPG through increased lubricity and/or cetane rating. I would like to pick up several bottles of the same stuff to take with me, treating each tank of fuel in an attempt to "smooth out the curve" of bad to good fuel stops.
Any and all advice will be appreciated
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2010
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The maintenance, tips, etc. document says to use PM-22-A (U.S.) motorcraft cetane booster if needed.
I found a post about cetane rating by fuel provider in the 6.4L section last night.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...ml#post9335294
My main point I wanted to bring up was to keep at least one spare fuel filter kit (two filter units replaced at the same time) with your truck.
I found a post about cetane rating by fuel provider in the 6.4L section last night.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...ml#post9335294
My main point I wanted to bring up was to keep at least one spare fuel filter kit (two filter units replaced at the same time) with your truck.
Junior User
Joined: Sep 2010
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From: SW Ohio
The maintenance, tips, etc. document says to use PM-22-A (U.S.) motorcraft cetane booster if needed.
I found a post about cetane rating by fuel provider in the 6.4L section last night.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...ml#post9335294
My main point I wanted to bring up was to keep at least one spare fuel filter kit (two filter units replaced at the same time) with your truck.
I found a post about cetane rating by fuel provider in the 6.4L section last night.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...ml#post9335294
My main point I wanted to bring up was to keep at least one spare fuel filter kit (two filter units replaced at the same time) with your truck.
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From: Corinth, TX
should I really plan to swap filters before 5k miles? If so, what are the telltale signs of needing to replace filters?
BTW, given that other post, I think I'm going to start using Chevron for diesel. Try to stay consistent there for a few tanks, see how it does.
BTW, given that other post, I think I'm going to start using Chevron for diesel. Try to stay consistent there for a few tanks, see how it does.
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,219
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From: Kaysville Utah
Try this link for an interesting read on diesel additives.
Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place
Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place
Elder User
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If I am not mistaken don't the gas stations start getting a winter mix with anti-gelling additive added as we go into the colder months? Depending on your region.
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Try this link for an interesting read on diesel additives.
Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place
Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place
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From: Colorado foot hills
I like diesel kleen (available at wally-world).
Heck, even the 2011 owners manual suggests a cetane booster when needed.
I used it pretty regliously in my 2000 and had 194k on the clock when I swaped for the '10 KR. Still had the stock injectors in 'er.
jammer
Heck, even the 2011 owners manual suggests a cetane booster when needed.
I used it pretty regliously in my 2000 and had 194k on the clock when I swaped for the '10 KR. Still had the stock injectors in 'er.
jammer
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
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I came across this post in a VW TDI forum.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.p...74&postcount=1
***Cetane levels by fuel company. To ensure accuracy if you have a level to add to the list please forward an email from a corporate office to me, and I will add it to the list. Please bear in mind that the current minimum from refiners in North America is 40. Depending on the quality of the oil used as well as refining processes you'll find 40-42 from refiners in the US and Canada. Anything above that has to do with specific companies additive packages. When companies give a minimum value then it will be listed as a single number. When a company gives a range of numbers bear in mind that more often than not you'll probably find the lower number rather than the higher number. If 40 is listed then it generally means that fuel is bought as is from the refiner--if someone messes up and doesn't put in enough additive at the refinery then that can cause major problems for your fuel system. It's recommended therefore that if you get the inexpensive fuel with low cetane you use a cetane booster (PowerService, Redline 85+ or Stanadyne are all great choices), or run a little biodiesel in the tank. If something higher than 42 is listed then the retailer adds their own additive package in addition to the standard refinery additive package. Generally speaking as long as 49 or higher is listed you do not need to worry about adding any additives yourself.
BP (Amoco branded), 51;
Chevron, 49;
PetroCanada, 47-51
Marathon, 45-47
BP (Powerblend 47, otherwise 40-42)
Shell, 46;
Sinclair, 46;
Sunoco Gold, 45 (often +1-5) Sunoco regular is usually 40.
Holiday Stations, 40-43
HESS, 40-42, can be up to 45.
Husky, 40 + diesel Max additives raise another 1-3 from there (41-45 max)
Love's: 40
Pilot: 40
Valero: 40
Flying J, 40
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.p...74&postcount=1
***Cetane levels by fuel company. To ensure accuracy if you have a level to add to the list please forward an email from a corporate office to me, and I will add it to the list. Please bear in mind that the current minimum from refiners in North America is 40. Depending on the quality of the oil used as well as refining processes you'll find 40-42 from refiners in the US and Canada. Anything above that has to do with specific companies additive packages. When companies give a minimum value then it will be listed as a single number. When a company gives a range of numbers bear in mind that more often than not you'll probably find the lower number rather than the higher number. If 40 is listed then it generally means that fuel is bought as is from the refiner--if someone messes up and doesn't put in enough additive at the refinery then that can cause major problems for your fuel system. It's recommended therefore that if you get the inexpensive fuel with low cetane you use a cetane booster (PowerService, Redline 85+ or Stanadyne are all great choices), or run a little biodiesel in the tank. If something higher than 42 is listed then the retailer adds their own additive package in addition to the standard refinery additive package. Generally speaking as long as 49 or higher is listed you do not need to worry about adding any additives yourself.
BP (Amoco branded), 51;
Chevron, 49;
PetroCanada, 47-51
Marathon, 45-47
BP (Powerblend 47, otherwise 40-42)
Shell, 46;
Sinclair, 46;
Sunoco Gold, 45 (often +1-5) Sunoco regular is usually 40.
Holiday Stations, 40-43
HESS, 40-42, can be up to 45.
Husky, 40 + diesel Max additives raise another 1-3 from there (41-45 max)
Love's: 40
Pilot: 40
Valero: 40
Flying J, 40
You have uncovered one of the biggest dirty secrets of the diesel fuel business.
Fuel quality varies widely even within name brands.
That is before adulteration.
As for bio-diesel? The joke is on you as there is virtually nil quality control and auditing and spot checks.
I strongly advise anyone that will listen to never use bio-diesel or at least, avoid it as long as possible, and only get biodiesel blends of the lowest content, most reputable, highest reliability source.
Do not risk biodiesel for cetane boost --- it is not worth it.
Buy a bottle of cetane boost instead.
Any cetane below 45 is going to seriously compromise performance.
In Europe, cetane levels are around 52, and their vehicles gag a the stuff sold here as "diesel"
When there is such a drastic difference in actual mileage, it is telling you something.
Oh BTW --- low cetane equal high particulates production.
High particulates = more likely to clog EGR, more DPF regens, etc.
Cetane boost any suspect fuel... is my thinking.
FYI, I posted recently on the whole issue of fuel adulteration / quality, and ended up being harangued because people did not want to believe that there is widespread cheating, adulteration, and scamming going on in the diesel business.
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From: Corinth, TX
actually, higher than normal cetane ratings will *increase* particulate because they smoke more. There is a really good read here: http://www.chevron.com/products/prod...ech_Review.pdf that explains WAY more than I ever wanted to know about diesel fuel
the specific excerpt I'm referencing is on page 9 of that PDF:
so while higher cetane ratings do appear to be a good thing, it's much like octane for gas in that the engine must be properly timed for it. I guesstimate that a cetane rating of 50 is probably a good safe target for our engines. Perhaps someone with more knowledge can improve on that guess.
the specific excerpt I'm referencing is on page 9 of that PDF:
Variation of most fuel properties within the normal ranges will not lead to the high level of particulate matter (PM) represented by smoking. The exception is cetane number; fuel with a very high cetane number can cause smoking in some engines. The short ignition delay causes most of the fuel to be burned in the diffusion-controlled phase of combustion (see page 78), which can lead to higher PM emissions.
Post Fiend
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actually, higher than normal cetane ratings will *increase* particulate because they smoke more. There is a really good read here: http://www.chevron.com/products/prod...ech_Review.pdf that explains WAY more than I ever wanted to know about diesel fuel
the specific excerpt I'm referencing is on page 9 of that PDF:
so while higher cetane ratings do appear to be a good thing, it's much like octane for gas in that the engine must be properly timed for it. I guesstimate that a cetane rating of 50 is probably a good safe target for our engines. Perhaps someone with more knowledge can improve on that guess.
the specific excerpt I'm referencing is on page 9 of that PDF:
so while higher cetane ratings do appear to be a good thing, it's much like octane for gas in that the engine must be properly timed for it. I guesstimate that a cetane rating of 50 is probably a good safe target for our engines. Perhaps someone with more knowledge can improve on that guess.
Right on --- there is an "optimum" cetane.
Someone need to chime in here with knowledge of Diesel Engine Electronics.
On a gasser, variances in octane is addressed by retarding the timing in accordance with the anti-knock sensor detecting knocking.
Can someone tell is whether there is a good way to sense cetane and whether it is theoretically (whether or not actually) possible to adjust injection timing?
As I understand it, most diesel engines here are optimized for about 45 cetane, and lose performance when it is below that.
A severe "out of range" cetane, e.g. over 60, would cause the problems mentioned above.
Do anyone here know if the current generations of engines can adjust / adapt to different cetane levels via the electronics and software?
ie 6.0 6.4 and 6.7?
I am pretty sure the 6.0 can't.
Visualize the combustion process.
If you have low cetane, it means the fuel starts combusting too soon -- before the fuel droplets are properly mixed with the compressed charge.
On the other hand, excess cetane mean that combustion is delayed too long.
Neither is good.
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From: Corinth, TX
I would think that if any of those can do it, it would be the 6.7... but I honestly don't know. It seems reasonable to me that *some* sort of automatic injection timing adjustment exists... but how would it be sensed? It doesn't cause knocking like octane changes do in gas. Hopefully someone can answer that question.
Where are you getting the number 45 from? I'm not questioning it, I'd just like to read the reference as well. I specifically switched to chevron because they claim 47 cetane rating in publications... and so far on this tank I've noticed a slight bump in mpg... but nothing to write home about. maybe 1mpg more and that might just be my driving (or any number of factors). I'd think that if 45 is the target, 47 should be fine. 50 or 52 might cause more particulate and actually *lower* mpg overall because of the more frequent regen cycles.
Man, I knew moving to diesel would be drastically different... but never expected this
Where are you getting the number 45 from? I'm not questioning it, I'd just like to read the reference as well. I specifically switched to chevron because they claim 47 cetane rating in publications... and so far on this tank I've noticed a slight bump in mpg... but nothing to write home about. maybe 1mpg more and that might just be my driving (or any number of factors). I'd think that if 45 is the target, 47 should be fine. 50 or 52 might cause more particulate and actually *lower* mpg overall because of the more frequent regen cycles.
Man, I knew moving to diesel would be drastically different... but never expected this
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
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Where are you getting the number 45 from? I'm not questioning it, I'd just like to read the reference as well. I specifically switched to chevron because they claim 47 cetane rating in publications... and so far on this tank I've noticed a slight bump in mpg... but nothing to write home about. maybe 1mpg more and that might just be my driving (or any number of factors). I'd think that if 45 is the target, 47 should be fine. 50 or 52 might cause more particulate and actually *lower* mpg overall because of the more frequent regen cycles.
Typically engines are designed to use fuels with Cetane Numbers of 40-55, because below 38 a more rapid increase in ignition delay. The significance of the cetane number increases with the speed of the engine, and large, low speed diesel engines often only specify viscosity, combustion and contaminant levels, as Cetane Number requirement of the engine is met by most distillate and residual fuels that have the appropriate propeties. High speed diesel engines ( as in cars and trucks ) virtually all are designed to accept fuels around 50 Cetane Numbers, with higher numbers being a waste. </pre>
Diesel Fuel News
EMA WANTS 43-CETANE N. AMERICA ULSD.(Engine Manufacturers Association)(Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel Fuel)
Article from: Diesel Fuel News | September 12, 2005 | Copyright Hart Energy Publishing, LP Jun 9, 2008 (Hide copyright information) Copyright
Engine Manufacturers Association (EMA) unveiled a "North American Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel Fuel Properties" recommendation calling for a 43-cetane number minimum rather than today's 40-cetane minimum. EMA's statement not only confirms support for a 15-ppm sulfur maximum ULSD that U.S. EPA specifies, but also asks American Society for Testing & Materials (ASTM) to boost the minimum cetane number to 43, from the current 40, via ASTM D613 method (http://www.enginemanufacturers.org/a...upload/192.pdf). The cetane boost "will improve the sociability aspects of diesel fuel performance such as white smoke, engine starting and engine combustion noise," EMA said. EMA also
I know mine 2005 (6.0) is optimized for 45ish --- because that is the target cetane that manufacturers were moving refiners to for 2004/2005
Note the EMA wanted a minimum of 44, but a target of around 45 and up.
You, having a later model year (2011) , is probably optimized higher. Perhaps as high as 50?
As to whether there is compensation for higher and lower than expected optimal cetane... we need some engineers to chime in.
Off hand, I can think of a way to do it via combustion gas temperature measured instantly at the exhaust valve, or perhaps via a highly sensitive "knock" MEMS sensor that detects how the actual combustion phase (initial vs final) is done.
Whether this is actually done --- is another question.
regeneration frequency (a measure of particulates) can give a longer (not real time) sense of it... as both gross under and gross over will have consequences that is detectable in the tailpipe.