I just weighed my truck at work where we weigh in/out log trucks. With 1/2 tank of fuel and me in it was 8220 and rear axle weight was 3200. Alot heavier than I was expecting. It is a 2008 with the 6.4L, CC, 6 3/4 box. Can anybodoy explain how to figure what is the max 5er GVWR I can pull and explain how the pin weight comes in to play. I have read alot but something is not clicking with me. Every time I think I have it figured out, I don't. I absolutely love this truck (except the MPG). GVWR=10000, GCWR=23000, FGAWR=6000, RGAWR=6100.

 

HI,

I can finally add something to this forum. I have been lurking and learning. I have a 2010 F250 CC 2WD short bed and here are my numbers.

Weight (full tank, me and dog in truck):
Total 7680
Front Axle 4580
Back axle 3100

Weight of 15k Superglide hitch
180 plus mounting kit ... total about 210

Weight of DW
125

So total weight of Truck full of fuel, 5th wheel hitch, Dog, Me, and wife
is 8015.

GVWR is 9800 on truck is

So that leaves about 1800 for 5th wheel pin weight and cargo..

As mine is a 2 WD, I suppose that is why my numbers are a few hundred pounds less than yours...I have been told that 4WD adds 400+ pounds...

Here is a link to a discussion thread on my weight numbers:

F250 and Pin Weight Question - iRV2 Forums

Also google 3/4 ton towable 5th wheels and you will get a wealth of information and opions.

 

WR is weight on the tires..

GV says gross.. ie 'max'.. 10,000
your actual is 8220

so you have room for 1780 lbs of stuff in/on the truck.

now in that 10,000 Max, they say do NOT put more that 6000 on the front axle, and no more than 6100 on the rear axle. (don't get into adding these it'll drive u crazy)..
so, as part of the actual weight, they told you you currently have 3200 lbs on the rear axle.. so you technically COULD add 2900 to the rear axle.. BUT you are limited to a total of 1780 across the entire truck. by the GVWR..

so, take away another 1/2 tank of fuel and add another passenger.. 300lbs.. you can add 1480 worth of weight to the truck..

now.. onto the trailer.. the GCVWR say that the total weight on the ground (gross, not actual) is limited to 23000.

the truck is 10,000 already.. so the trailer cannot be more than 13000, total. and of that 13000 you cannot have more than 1480 of it sitting ON the truck. (pin)

now, one additional thing, most 5th/gn say that the pin should be 15-25% of the total weight of the trailer..

15% of 13000 is 1950.. this would be more than the 1480 we calculated above..

so, another way to calc trailer is if 1480 is 15%, what is 100%.. , approx 9866 lbs. at 25% its 5920.

so, I think the final net is

you CAN put more ON the rear axle (up to 2900)
and stay withing the axle rating, but it will put you over the vehicle rating. (at 2900 on the pin @ 25% the trailer would be 11600, and @ 15% 19300.. (way over the GC)..

so.. netted all out.. someplace between 9866 and 13000
with 15% on the pin.. but you probably be over the truck Gross Weight Rating.

they don't care what you ACTUALLY weigh, as long as it is UNDER the rated weight.

also, triple axle trailer will be a telltale sign that you are over.
cause the lowest, 5k axle times 3 is 15k.. and we said 13 was the limit..

also, not 'all' the weight of the pin will sit exactly on the rear axle.. there is some formula to guess the rear.front distribution, but I don't know it.
(net is 2900 of exact pin weight won't weigh as 2900 all on the rear axle itself)..

Sam

 

Here's a RV Forum thread that will give you real-world examples of what "5er" weights are being towed by several vehicles:

RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Whats Your Real Weights? Truck and Trailer. The Real Deal

 

Sandr, hi. You can make yourself crazy with all those acronyms and numbers. I've been towing 5ers for over 10 years and here is my advice. The only number that really matters with a 5er is the Rear Axle Weight. Your's is I think you said 6100. It is usually based on the tires. Add the weight rating of both tires and it will almost always equal the RAWR. In your case 3050lbs@85psi cold. The 85psi is a guess but you get the idea. So you can increase the pratical RAWR by upgrading the tires. You can also level the truck and improve handling by adding airbags. So here's the deal. Subtract the weight you got on the Rear Axle at the scale from 6100, (if you only had a half tank of fuel then add 7lbs per gallon for the other half tank) figure 100 lbs for the hitch and tool box and the rest is what you have for tounge weight. That's a rough estimate but don't forget you have the option of upgrading the tires if you get waaaaayyy over. But you probably won't. Most 5ers in the 32 to 34 ft size are made to be towed by a single rear wheel, 250 or 350. If you are considering a real heavy 5er say 16 to 18,000 lbs then you will have some beefing up to do. My 5er weighs almost 17 and I pulled it for a year with my short bed extended cab 250. No real problems but I had the airbags and the 18 ply tires. Anyway the 5ers 34 ft or less will weigh 10 to 12,000lbs and have a tounge weight of about 18 to 20 percent. Say 1700 to 2500 lbs. So by the time you get the family the dog and the firewood aboard you will end up with just about 6000lbs on the rear axle. You see the folks selling trucks and trailers know why the customers buy them. OK, here's an important item. Be sure to weigh the rig once you get it and get it loaded. Weigh it in as close to "ready" configuration as possible. And if the weight on the rear axle is over I suggest you upgrade the tires because if you are over loaded or under inflated the tires will fail. Happy camping, hope to see you out here on the road one day. This is being sent from a campground just outside Crater Lake national park. Life is good.

 

How important is it to not go over the TV GVWR (I would think very)? #'s are driving me crazy. But, if I estimate a loaded truck (rest of family, fuel, hitch) and get 8760, that leaves me 1240 for hitch weight. For a 5er at 12k, that only allows 10% margin. The rear axle weight has plenty of room to spare. I understand not going over the axle weight, but the GVWR is the limiting factor and I do not want to go over a weight rating. Is a 10% margin ok? Maybe the truck is just to darn heavy.

 

Well, it's you that has to decide. As I said I've been doing this not quite full time but almost for 10 years and I stay active on several web sites. I've yet to have anyone give me a good explanation for the GVWR. As best I can tell it's fords best (very conservative) estimate of how much weight the truck can handle. Plus it makes no sense, how can the total weight rating be less than the sum of the two axle ratings? The only use I could ever come up with is that if you blew an engine under warranty and ford could prove you were using the truck to carry weight far in excess of the GVWR then they might have an out. Never heard of it happening and I don't think it ever would. Now the commerical boys have some different rules under DOT but they mean nothing unless you carry cargo or passengers for hire. You will also hear a bunch of bull about overloaded guys being jailed and fined and having their trucks taken. None will be true. The truth is that no one much bothers RVers. I think thats cause as a group we are pretty safe and pretty conservative. I will close with this, there are thousands of 3/4 ton trucks out there pulling 12,000 lb 5ers without a problem. In fact as I type this I have one on each side of me. If you are really concerned get the 5er salesman to let you tow whatever you are considering buying with one of their trucks, or with yours if you have a hitch. Times are tough, they should be happy to give you a test tow. Also go over to RVNet and ask how many guys are pulling 12K lb5ers with a 3/4 ton. Caution, don't ask about the meaning of the weight ratings, you will be reading for a year. Hope this helps.

 

and I think the GVWR/GCVWR are for tax/license fee usage.
10,000 seems to be the magic limit in some states. and 26000 is the magic combined number.. over you are 'clearly' commercial..

RV gets an exemption.

I want to pull a 44/48ft GN enclosed car hauler, to take my two show vehicles to shows around the country. but I cannot find a combination that works, and I don't get the exemption.

truck is 13000 GVWR, trailer has to be under 13000.. 2 6k axles is 12,500, but the two cars will put it overweight. 2-7k axles is 14+..
and now I'm over 26k, and need commercial license, insurance, etc..
all drivers..

now, I will admit that in the future these vehicles could represent advertising of my after retirement income generation, but not yet.
they are MY personal vehicles. so they are not for hire..

Sam

 

I don't want to sidetrak this thread but there are some things not right with our thinking dealing with commercial licenses. Help me here guys and gals ,some of these 40ft Diesel Pusher RV's, going down I-35 at 75MPH pulling a Suburban in an enclosed trailer are weighing in at 26k or less? I think not! They are exempt from commercial drivers licenses and commercial registration.
The reason I say this, my neighbor has 40 ft Monaco, with a 20 ft enclosed trailer, and his antique car. I towed just the trailer down to the scales and weighed it for him as he did not want to hook up the Pusher, it weighed in at 10,000 +lbs. His Pusher, loaded, his ticketed stated his weight was 32800 lbs. Added the 2 together is over 42k. The GCWR is 43,000. He has no commercial licensess whatsoever and has been doing this for over 15 years. Are we saying there are special commercial consideratons for our "Pickup" trucks where we have to have a commercial license when we go over certain weights? I understand the 23,000lbs total weight for the PU's but then I am hearing that anything over 26k needs a commercial licenses. I am having a problem with that for now.

 

there are a bunch of threads here discussing the commercial requirements.

Massachusetts - all dually must be commercial
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...ons-in-ma.html
NY over 10,000 must be commercial
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...al-plates.html
CA all pickups are commercial. (over 10k?)
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/6...ml#post4766089

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...ml#post9081320
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...ml#post7775098
etc..

RV's get exemption. cause they are clearly 'NOT commercial'

and if I put a toilet (as well as sleeping area) in my 48ft trailer I can 'claim' its rv.. but then lose the towing space too.!..

my auto ins company doesn't insure commercial.
and don't get all logical on us!.. and it doesn't matter what you DO weigh, only what your 'qualified' for.. (my truck is 13k, a 14k trailer will put me at 27k total.. even if empty I weigh 14k total

Sam

 

What states are you guys in? If you are in a state that makes you buy a commerical tag, does that make you comply with all DOT rules and regs? I wouldn't think so. Do you HAVE TO STOP at weigh stations? Do you need a CDL? A commerical operation is one being done for money. If you are just trying to avoid having to pay the extra fees, well I guess you could join the Tea Party and see if you can elect polititions who will get their hands out of your pockets. I don't know about Mass but I inherited a farm in NY a few years ago and before I got it sold I dealt with the state taxes and it was a big bite, I mean a big bite. C,mon down south, the taxes are lower and there is nothing to shovel in the winter.

 

I am in Texas.. still have to deal with commercial over 26,000 GCVWR..

Sam

 

OK, so you have to pay for a commerical tag because of the GCVWR. But you are not a commerical operator. You're not making any money, you just tow your toys, right? So then, are you required to comply with all the rules and regulations of the DOT (either TX or US) or do they just want the additional fees. Based of course on the premise that your heavier vehicle causes more wear and tear on the roads than say a 1/2 ton pickup. Is that it?

 

there are 3 CDL levels.. A up to C, we have to have A level (lowest). no log book..

correct, not making money, and not for hire to carry anyone elses gear. so I would guess, only for the tax fees

here are the specs from dmv.org

CDL Classes for Every State

To be eligible for a CDL, you must have a clean driving record. Federal regulations require you to pass a physical exam every two years. To operate a commercial motor vehicle in interstate commerce, you must be at least 21. Many states allow those as young as 18 to drive commercial vehicles within the state. You must be able to read and speak English well enough to read road signs, prepare reports, and communicate with the public and with law enforcement.

The Act established three separate classes of commercial driver's licenses. Every state issues licenses in these categories:

• Class A: Any combination of vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating (GWVR) of 26,001 or more pounds, provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  
• Class B: Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.
  
• Class C: Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is placarded for hazardous materials.

Many states make exceptions for farm vehicles, snow removal vehicles, fire and emergency vehicles, and some military vehicles.

Top Endorsements

To be licensed for certain types of commercial vehicles, extra testing is required. If you pass, you will receive an endorsement on your CDL. These are the five endorsements that you can apply for. Each requires between one and five knowledge (written) tests, and two require driving (skills) tests.

• T―Double/Triple Trailers (knowledge test only)
• P―Passenger (knowledge and skills tests)
• N―Tank Vehicle (knowledge test only)
• H―Hazardous Materials (knowledge test only)
• S―School Buses (knowledge and skills tests)

Top Requirements for Medical Certification

In the interest of public safety on the highways, Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) regulations require interstate commercial drivers to be medically fit to operate their vehicles safely and competently. You are required to have a physical exam and carry a U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) medical certificate if:

• You operate a motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) or gross combination weight rating (GCWR) or gross vehicle weight (GVW) or gross combination weight (GCW) of 4,536 kilograms (10,001 pounds) or more in interstate commerce.
• You operate a motor vehicle designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers, including the driver, in interstate commerce.
• You operate a motor vehicle designed or used to transport between nine and 15 passengers, for direct compensation, beyond 75 air miles from your regular work-reporting location, in interstate commerce.
• You transport hazardous materials in quantities requiring placards, in interstate commerce.

You must carry a current copy of your medical examination certificate with you when you drive. Residents of Mexico or Canada who drive in the United States can be certified by doctors in their countries, provided they meet the U.S. requirements.

Who is exempt from a CDL? (Certification form CDL-2
required)
Persons operating the following vehicles are exempt from a
Commercial Driver License:

1. A vehicle that is controlled and operated by a farmer;
   and used to transport agricultural products, farm machinery,
   or farm supplies to or from a farm; and not used in
   the operations of a common or contract motor carrier; and
   used within 150 air miles of the person’s farm.
2. A fire-fighting or emergency vehicle necessary to the
   preservation of life or property or the execution of emergency
   governmental functions, whether operated by an
   employee of a political subdivision or by a volunteer fire
   fighter (this includes operators of industrial emergency
   vehicles);
3. A military vehicle, when operated for military purposes
   by military personnel, members of the Reserves and
   National Guard on active duty, including personnel on
   full-time National Guard duty, personnel on part-time
   training, and National Guard military technicians; or
4. A recreational vehicle that is driven for personal use.

 

Sam I'm no lawyer but I did have a long career reading government regs and it seems to me that the key sentence in that is the one which says "to operate a vehicle in interstate commerce" and then lists the requirments. I'm not doing that and I don't guess you are either. Do you have to take a physical and Pee in the bottle and stop at the weigh stations also? If so man what a pain. There can't be but just a few states doing that, or maybe they are exempting all RVs. My liscense list all that stuff i can drive and then says "all RVs are included in that class". But maybe if it wasn't an Rv I would have to comply also, I'm gonna check that out.